So I have a great chance of getting a Craftsman Professional 10 in. Contractor Saw (Sears#21833) for a really good price. The saw is new too. I was wondering if this was a good buy or should I pass on the deal for the Ridgid or Porter Cable version? Has anyone used the Craftsman? Is the quality good?
Depends on the price….$350-$400 is a good price on a new one….$500 is typical. The Ridgid R4512 and the 21833 are essentially the same saw made by the same company (Dayton). "New" means little if it doesn't include the manufacturer's warranty and return privileges, but it sure trumps "run hard and put away wet"! The R4512 includes the Lifetime Service Agreement, so I'd go that route at even money. The Porter Cable has a plastic elevation gear and a fairly lame fence IMO.
Well Sears is willing to sell it to me for $250 + tax and free S & H. I can't think of a reason not to get it other than some reviews of bad trunnions.
I would assume you are going to check the trunnions before purchase, or get a guarantee that if it has alignment issues they will take it back. I have a 21833 that I have used very little to this point but it seems like a competent saw that will at least get me through a few years until I HAVE to have a cabinet saw. I still have yet to check for the alignment issues since i yet dont have the equipment
Run away from any Crapsman saws. I hate to say, but the newer Craftsman stuff is not up to the fine standards that the old products held. I have not even considered Craftsman power tools in 20 years.
That's a shame, but it is just my take on the crap Sears has foisted on the public. Oh well…......
Bill
I have been using the 21833 for two years, and any problems have been my fault, not the saws. $250 delivered is a steal for this type saw, as long as it includes the 30 day return and 1 year warranty just in case a problem crops up. As mentioned above, the Ridgid version is a better deal if it is at the same or nearly same price, since it has the lifetime service agreement. $250 isn't much more than some aluminum top jobsite type saws with universal motors, so that is a lot of saw for the money.
Although their have been complaints of alignment problems, there are solutions if you are willing to spend the time checking on line. I have made comments on several topics here on LJ's about this saw over the past couple years, so just click on my homepage link and check some of the 21833 and R4512 topics I have commented on.
I've been eyeing the 21833 myself. A bit scared of the damage issue but really like the Sears delivery vs. getting something off a truck and lift gate fees and grumpy truck drivers that I've had to deal with when receiving heavy gym or computer equipment.
It's worth noting that most of the alignment issues you're reading about with the R4512 and 21833 were early models….not uncommon for new releases of any mechanical device to experience some manufacturing issues early on.
I figure that it was mostly older models. I think I need to pull the trigger and retire the old saw I currently use. I am glad it has the casters otherwise it may be too heavy for me to move by myself. How easy is it to actually assemble anyway? I have heard the horror stories.
I have (6 mo.s) the top end Sears contractor saw (hybrid). I think its the one your talking about. I had the alignment issues. I had to remove the rear trunnion and have the holes elongated to facilitate getting enough movement to align the blade. Getting to the trunnion cap screws is a real trip. Use hex key sockets with an extension bar. The tab at the rear end of the fence snapped the first time I used the saw. Same machinist made me a new one. He said the metal they used was too brittle. The directions are totally useless. Just look at the pictures and do the best you can. I didn't have any parts left over. The saw is very heavy, you will need help turning it right side up after assembly.
All that said- I have built $30K in cabinets with the saw. Once you get it tuned up, for the money you can't beat it.
I bought mine about 20 months ago.
I had a bitch of a time gettig thr arbor in alignment with the miter slot.
Partially because the manual is worthless and I had to figure most of it out on my own.
Partially because the design is on the raw edge of being too weak to hold an adjustment.
It's not a tool that will be passed down through generations.
It probably won't last me till I get too old to use it; and I'm 62.
But, I did manage to get it aligned, added an Incra miter guide and a good blade.
It only cost me $409 plus tax. Less than $2.00/pound. Cheaper than bottled water!
It runs and cuts good. Much better than those noisy, flimsy job-site type saws.
It has a cast iron top with standard miter slots.
The saw has a fairly good fence, IMO.
The motor is plenty strong for my use; DIY'er, novice furniture maker, hobbiest.
It has good retractable casters; I don't need to move it much, but that's an issue for some folks.
Bottom line, if I could get another one for $250 I'd be on that like stink on $h!t.
If ya have to ask, see Crank's post. I rest my case. I sure wish that Sears folks would frequent the WWing sites to see the comments about their stuff.
Seems a shame to have to go thru all the crap to get a working saw. Now, I'll polish my 1952 Craftsman/KingSeeley
drill press and my 7" bench grinder.
Does this make me a cranky old fart?
Bill
If you can get something WHITOUT those stamped steel wings, you should. BUT, price is everything sometimes. If it's a great deal, buy it and make some MDF wings that will be flat.
I wouldn't pay more than $300. You can get some nice old saws on CL for that price…
Well after 3 months of trying to get the saw do to back order and false starts (ten yard penalty IMO) I finally have the saw on its way. The incredible thing is that the saw is now on sale and the rep just wrote down the discount amount and not the final price, so because the saw is on discount for $20 off, I am getting the saw, with tax at $233 and new. Worth the wait since mid October I think. The ETA is the 28th or so. Glad I don't have to pay for shipping or for the saw to be moved into my shop.
Since I was expected to move to Rochester and now am staying where I am, and the shop is completely disassembled into storage units. I have to get everything out of the way and unpacked to make room. I guess it is a very small price to make to get such a great deal. I'll take photos when it arrives.
Update: The tablesaw arrived today. The Sears guys got it into the shop after having to rub the box against the weather stripping (yes the box is absolutely massive). After cutting the box open, I started to assemble the saw (photos coming soon). So far the instructions for putting the saw together aren't really that bad. Based on other reviews I was prepared for much worse.
So far, the only complaints that I really have is that some of the parts are scratched or having paint chipped off. Allot of this is minor so I am not going to worry about it, but I would have liked a new saw to well, look new and without scratches. One other minor thing I noticed, and this is more of an acceptable issue really, is that since these are stamped parts, when you put the casters and brake assembly on, almost all of the leg bolts need to be loosened to allow for the brake assembly to be mounted. The tolerances in the entire assembly so far could have been just a little better.
I am at the point were I need to flip it onto it's feet. By no means do I think anyone should even attempt it by themselves. I think that would be just crazy since it is just under 300 lbs. Some friends and beers coming soon!
Mike, you may have read this elsewhere, but two things are worth repeating when it comes time to check the alignment on this saw.
First, don't do any alignment with the blade cranked all the way up. The blade will "rack" slightly if you crank it all the way up to where the wheel won't turn anymore. Backing it down a few rotations will prevent this problem. Despite what some people have said, this doesn't just apply to this saw. I have read this same advice in the op's manual for other much more expensive saws.
Second, be certain to back off the 90 and 45 degree stops prior to any attempt to move the trunnion, if such movement is needed. I believe that a lot of the complaints that there have been about not having enough adjustment available to get the blade aligned to the miter slot have been caused by this problem. When I first got my saw, I was just barely able to get it to move far enough to align it. After I read this recommendation from somewhere else, I tried it and found that I had enough movement available to actually over adjust by a substantial amount, and was able to get it dialed in just right.
Good luck with the saw. You got a great deal. As for the stamped steel wings, I took the one off of the left side of the saw, put a 16" cast iron router table in its place, then put the extra wing on the right side attached to the other one. This gives me a top that if I remember correctly is 57" wide. Pretty handy to have all that space. With infeed and outfeed support I can easily rip a full sheet of 3/4 plywood by myself.
Mike, how in the world did you get that price on it? I was in my local Sears a couple of weeks ago any I could swear they mah it marked as 360 or something but didn't have the funds available. Went back the other day and and it was 599.
I am just a really good negotiator I guess Really though it was a big screw up that caused the good deal. It started with some terrible customer service and then more and more. Finally they had saws they had stated in stock and didn't. A few letters and some very long discussions later and I got my deal. Then the saw was out of stock again. Overall, after this entire thing is over, I refuse to buy from Sears again. To many headaches and several phone overages later I am just glad this is over and done with. I still am waiting on some help with flipping the saw, but once it is flipped, I will give a full first blush view. Also, I will post a censored copy of my recite.
Table saw update: I finally got some help in flip the saw. I got to 97% of the assembly completed when I found out that the riven knife was missing. I wont have the part till the 12th. All I have to really say is this thing better turn on when I power it up…
Hi Mike, I couldn't tell you the model nu ber of my Craftsman it's over 25 years old. I can tell you as you might have experienced it, it took me almost 9 hours to assemble and tune. In 25 years it's seen a lot of projects, and for a brief time it served as assembly table. I have only two problems with it. (1) the stamped steel wings, which I have never replaced, but will one day maybe, (2) the top is not a flat cast iron top, it has thes egrooves that you see in most of the crafstman bench top saws. I have dealt with both and after a while got used to it. Like you the best part was the deal. It was 699. When I priced it and when it was the last model in the store, and they were getting all new in a few months the price plummeted to 399. I went back to see if they still had it 2 days later and it was 329. I struck a deal with sears for 300, than applied for a sears card when I checked out and got an additional 10% off. All said and done with tax, plus I picked it up with my truck no S&H it was 280 and change. If I waited another day I might have gotten it cheaper or it could have been gone already. My buddy was somewhat of the catalyst for this, who has a bad habit when we are tool shopping to tell me, " you can't afford not to buy it!", like the fool that I am that little push wouldn't let me hang on for another day. Since craftsman is not what it used to be I hope you get good use from it, cause you did get a good deal.
What's the problem with the stamped steel table wings? I had them on my Craftsman TS for over 20 years and thought about replacing them a few times, but never did. They did what they were supposed to do. - lol
I have had my craftsman table say for over 20 years and like most of it except the fince but it will soon be replaced with a custome made fince and rails. I recently got another one in a trade and am going to hook them both together side to side with a single fince system on for the dado pack one for cutting table width will be 88". hope you enjoy your new say I have used mine alot over the year and it is still going.
david
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