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Forum topic by anobium posted 12-31-2011 06:29 PM 3152 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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anobium

64 posts in 1808 days


12-31-2011 06:29 PM

Topic tags/keywords: tablesaw planer router

it is frustrating finding decent powertools for a fair price here in Germany.
I refuse to buy a DeWalt Planer DW733 for 1300$ and a Tablesaw used for oder 2000$.
I am at the point where I am willing to import, pay tax on and struggle with the shipment of
tools from the US even though that means operating a power converter.

Watching YouTube and reading I found Delta, Ridgid, Porter Cable and Dewalt to be most likely name Brands over there. Maybe they just have a huge output n tools and aren’t that great but maybe you alll can help me out.
The 3 things I am looking for.

A: Table saw: flat top, good rip fence that it easy to adjust and move without getting out of alignment miterslot that are straight and bigger than 1/2 inch with 1/4 inch depth (I like the R4512 lookwise)

B: Thickness Planer Any Information on why which is worth to buy or not is welcome

C: Router That can can be mounted into a table and adjusted from the top with an allen wrench for example

I may add that I am not in the lucky situation of having tons of money and the shipment problem.
Y’all help me out.

-- Whoever finds mistakes can keep them. English is a foreign language to me.


18 replies so far

View jim C's profile

jim C

1467 posts in 2562 days


#1 posted 12-31-2011 07:10 PM

Welcome to Lumberjocks.

A Ridgid 4512 or 3650 (used) are great saws for the price. But I’m wondering with Europe’s safety regulations if you could import them.
Look at the Triton 2-1/4 HP plunge router. It mounts to a table and has a crank for adjustment and can change bits from the tabletop with one wrench. The best router for tabletop in my opinion.
I have the DeWalt 733 and I love it, but $1300.00 is a crazy price to pay.

Good luck and happy new year.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 2433 days


#2 posted 12-31-2011 07:23 PM

Hi Anobium,

Things are very expensive in Ireland too. I am surprised that German made Metabo (Elektra Beckum) is not on your list, or Scheppach. Both have good entry level – professional saws and planer/thicknessers. I’m not sure if there is a European router lift manufacturer, but if that is a must, look at Jessem – Canadian I think, you can then put any 1/2” router on it. Don’t forget about dust extraction, a must for the saw and planer, I have an Elektra Beckum Spa1101 single bag collector that wasn’t huge money and has never given any problem. What voltage are you on in Germany? and how much space do you have?

View anobium's profile

anobium

64 posts in 1808 days


#3 posted 12-31-2011 07:54 PM

Appreciate your quick answers.
Elektra Beckum used to make tons of tools in the 80’s but today they only sell welders and woodsplitters, the Metabo Magnum comes close to what I want but usually goes on ebay for 1300€ (1680$). That is more than I would spend on a 12 year old saw with now waranty.
The Mafell Erika costs the same and everything has to be added. For extra money of course.

True ,European Safety Regulation may be the reason why they are not sold but as an individual I can import the saw.

I am limited when it comes to space, therefore the wheels would be so handy. My “shop” is 9ft x 9ft
i may upgrade to a garage next year.
Germany has 220V AC with 50 Hz (US 110V AC at 60Hz i think)

Triton was unknown to me but sells in Germany the 2 1/4 costs 430$ here compared to 249$ in the states.
I like it though.

-- Whoever finds mistakes can keep them. English is a foreign language to me.

View paratrooper34's profile

paratrooper34

891 posts in 2416 days


#4 posted 12-31-2011 08:47 PM

Anobium, when I lived in Germany, I saw all kinds of great tools on Ebay Germany. There were some spectacular old Ulmia table saws on there for less than half of the money you are willing to shell out. Those are some seriously nice saws. Don’t they sell thickness planers and routers at Bauhaus? I am pretty sure they do.

Lastly, do you live close to any US bases there or know any Americans there? If you do, it is possible to get some import from them. You will have to figure out the voltage issue of course, but there are transformers available that we used for our 110V stuff.

-- Mike

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richgreer

4541 posts in 2538 days


#5 posted 12-31-2011 09:05 PM

Let me advise you that you will find difference of opinion on this subject. I’ll just tell you what I think and some others may disagree.

For the table saw and planer, I recommend Grizzly. They only sell direct to the customer (no middle man). They are low priced and not very fancy, but they are very functional and, in my experience, dependable.

They believe simplicity is a virtue and have been known for good customer service. Because of the simplicity of design, I believe if something broke I could order a repair part and replace it myself. I believe that is true on virtually every part in the tool. So far, I have not been tested much on that.

I can’t speak very well about routers for under the table. I use a regular router lift and I suspect you will not be using a lift (at least initially). I will offer this advice – - someday you may want a router lift. Router lifts are not available for all brands and models. You might want to think ahead and focus on routers that you could use with a lift later.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View jim C's profile

jim C

1467 posts in 2562 days


#6 posted 12-31-2011 09:10 PM

If you buy a good router lift, and a decent router, you are looking at a far higher cost than the Triton I mentioned above. And no compatibility issues.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

View ShaneA's profile

ShaneA

6472 posts in 2062 days


#7 posted 12-31-2011 09:10 PM

Is Festool cheaper/available there? At least the router…good luck

View mcase's profile

mcase

446 posts in 2593 days


#8 posted 12-31-2011 09:41 PM

I don’t understand the Euro economy. Like Renners said its expensive in Ireland too. My Irish painter was telling me that he shipped his uncle a Paslode cordless nailer from the US ($450.00 at HD) because in Ireland they were over thousand bucks! Anyway, Anobium – I not sure what your looking for in quality, but if you considering a rigid then I’m guessing you not looking for top end. In that case I have to second Rich – your not going to get more bang for your buck than with Grizzly. But on the other hand you need to consider parts and support. I don’t know if Griz even has a presence in Europe. Given the EU’s self-stagnating mercantile policies I doubt they would let a competitive importer like Grizzly in. Grizzly is also a cast iron company and if you have to ship the items this might be too much. So in the partial-plastic sphere I would recommend the Dewalt 735 planer. I have no recommendations for a TS as I know nothing about the current hybrid products. But I warn you to you steer clear of Delta as they have just been sold and are in chaos. Also I was surprised Bosch is not on your list as its products are generally very superior. Are they less available in the Germany? Bosch is after all a German Company.

View Loren's profile

Loren

8303 posts in 3112 days


#9 posted 12-31-2011 09:55 PM

I’d recommend you look at used machinery. There are lots of
brands of combination machines available in Europe and they’ve
been made there for a long time so there are lots of used machines
in circulation.

Zincken, Lurem, and other brands were imported to the USA
in small numbers, but should be more available in your area.

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 2433 days


#10 posted 12-31-2011 10:21 PM

Anobium,

Here in Ireland we are on 230v mains electricity, so when on site use step down transformers to 110v, I don’t know how it works in Germany, but maybe that’s the way to go.
Your 9×9 workshop is very small, have you considered a flipover (combination) saw? I would consider buying a used one until you move into a bigger workshop, and sell it for near the same cost as you paid for it. This is what I mean:

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=139858

Metabo bought Elektra Beckum about 10 years ago, but still make all the machinery, search for Metabo half stationary machinery (workshop tools) they used to be all painted blue, but the brand new ones are now green.
Look at the Metabo PK200 or Scheppach saw for small footprint

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/metabo-pk200-table-saw-package-240v-includes-work-stand-sliding-carriage-side-extensions-base-rail-carrier-systemand-dust-extraction-hose-pid8697.html

http://www.scheppach.com/en/products/single-view/products/tischkreissaege-ts-2010/backPID/produktsuche.html?cHash=1d646bacaa

I have the 10” Metabo Planer/Thicknesser with a wheelkit, which has been a great machine.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/metabo-hc260-c-260mm-planer-thicknesser-240v/43940

Hope that helps

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anobium

64 posts in 1808 days


#11 posted 12-31-2011 11:24 PM

I learn something new every day. The flip over saw used to be ELU before DeWalt bought them. Works well, but not what I am looking for. i didn’t know that Elektra Beckum is Metabo now. Metabo and Bosch have the same Problem. They used to be very good tools, then started making a Hobby Line with plastic gears and after that started producing in china eversince I didn’t purchase one tool that worked right from the start. Bad Luck? Might be. for their contractors line they are asking a good price and that is also a compromise. I work through your suggestions but the fact that all tools are half price or less lets me still want to import a few things.

-- Whoever finds mistakes can keep them. English is a foreign language to me.

View Loren's profile

Loren

8303 posts in 3112 days


#12 posted 12-31-2011 11:37 PM

A: Grizzly, Powermatic, Delta, Jet, General – all American-style saws
which I don’t prefer but they are solid machines. Other American
brands of Asia-made saws are Lobo, Star, Bridgewood, Woodtek,
Steel City

B: All the portables come out of one or two factories in Asia. They
have more in common than they have differences. Parts availability
in Europe may be a concern as portables may have proprietary parts
like sintered gears and drive belts that are prone to breaking.

Some people favor the Japanese planers like Makita and Hitachi. Both
used to build them in Japan, but today I don’t know – they are
probably being sourced from China.

C: Newer Milwaukee routers have through the base adjustment for
table use. The bodygrip routers are excellent in many respects and
a very good all-round fixed base router.

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 2433 days


#13 posted 12-31-2011 11:43 PM

Just something to consider if you do end up importing tools from America, will you be liable to import duty as you are bringing in from outside the EU?
The tool shop and service centre nearest to me refuses to fix or supply parts for anything imported from America as they are not CE marked.
FWIW I can’t get over how much more things cost here either. You couldn’t buy a Dewalt biscuit jointer in Ireland for less than $270, on Amazon.com you pay $159.

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 2579 days


#14 posted 12-31-2011 11:46 PM

I realy don´t understrand you anobium … I live north of you and we say tool prizes in Germany is cheap
compared to what it is here
Elektra Beckum is still sold here and they do make Bandsaws etc. and for the Borch go after the blue line
thats the proffesionel serie Metabo isn´t bad either
and you don´t import maschinery from US so easely as you might think even though you don´t want
to sell them to others but only want to use them yourself you still have to convince them that they
can keep up to all the safty regulations and be proofed in a lab. on your cost …. still want to import…

take care
Dennis

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anobium

64 posts in 1808 days


#15 posted 01-01-2012 12:16 AM

Like I said i learn something new every day. The diferences in metabo and that they are elektra beckum gave a new outlook. If CE isn’t chinese export I give you that renners. Considering all facts I have to give up the table saw, even shipping iinstead of flying eats up all savings if that things is so heavy. Too bad because I really liked it. I am still not through with the Planer and Router thing. in GB they sell the DW735 here you can’t get it. Fun Fact Sears offers international shipping but nothing that is heavy or maybe not CE marked.
Dennis I am sorry for you that obviously companies can ask for even more than here but that doesn’t mean I gott be happy about the prices here or work with less accurate tools just because I spent a fortune on junke not able to afford what almost every else is afforable.

-- Whoever finds mistakes can keep them. English is a foreign language to me.

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