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Forum topic by Jeff82780 posted 12-26-2011 05:17 AM 1548 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jeff82780

186 posts in 1740 days


12-26-2011 05:17 AM

hello everyone and merry christmas. well as some of you know i am building my first woodworking bench. I was having a real difficult time jointing long 8’ boards for the top. I thought the problem was that i wasn’t keeping the board supported. So i decided to build some infeed and outfeed extensions for my jointer. so i cut some 2×6’s down to 3’ and was ready to mill. well to my dismay, things still are not working out to well. so now i am either having a technique problem or jointer setup problem. I watched the wood whisperers jointer setup for tips on how to do thiswtedious process. my knives all are fairly aligned, i took measurments on the infeed table using a straight edge and feeler gauges and the end result was .002 for the front and .005 for the back. i have the rigid jointer so gibs and dovetailed ways are used for table alignment. To be honest the gibs and ways really confuse me. So i figured .003 wasn’t that bad. at least not bad enough to mess up jointing a board. Marc spagnola never mentioned anything about adjusting the outfeed table so i left well enough alone. So after an hour or so of tuning up my jointer and went for it again. Same result another poorly jointed board. So now im thinking its my technique. This is how i approach this task at hand. I first look for the cupped side and then joint this side face down. i then slowly push the wood into the jointer. after the end of the board clears the knives i transfer all my pressure to the outfeed. The first half of the board seems to joint perfectly its the laater half that ends up all uneven and instead of being cupped th e board turns out convex. I took some pictures of the pocess so you guys can unerstand whats happening during the process
joint cupped face down


board starts to taper from so many passes

2nd pic- after 1 pass
3rd pic- after 3 passes
4th pic- after 12 passes
5th pic- tapered from so many passes


13 replies so far

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2473 posts in 2273 days


#1 posted 12-26-2011 05:31 AM

Jeff,

Merry Christmas.

Are the infeed and outfeed tables co-planer?

You said that you did not adjust the outfeed table height. Did you test it? It should be either at the top-dead-center of the blades or slightly below (there are differing opinions on this). I set my outfeed table so that a 12” rule placed on its side with 9 inches on the outfeed table will be moved 1/8” toward the infeed side by the blade when rotated by hand (with the machine unplugged!). I test this nine times. For each of the three blades, I test it on the two ends and the center.

Good luck.

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

353 posts in 1221 days


#2 posted 12-26-2011 05:41 AM

Jeff , Question, are your feed tables, i think the word is coplanar? if you set the infeed and out feed tables at the same relative height would a straight edge touch at both outside ends and at the ends near the knives? I believe the infeed and outfeed tables need to be on parallel planes, just different in height for the amount of material you desire to remove.

I hope this gives you some thoughts till one of the smart guys wakes up or checks in. Also hope I understood your problem right

View D_Allen's profile

D_Allen

495 posts in 1530 days


#3 posted 12-26-2011 06:07 AM

It could also be that you are pressing too hard at the start and not enough at the end.
That looks like pine and it will flex a lot in this case.
Here’s a test you could do. Try doing the edge of a board with the fence all the way to the back.
Check the width before and after and see if you get a consistent cut from one end to the other.
Then move the fence to the middle and run it again, and again with the fence to the extreme front.
That will give you an idea of how much if any the tables are out from being coplanar.
I’d also suggest that you try it flat again with the cup down as you have been. But do not put too much pressure downward. I’m assuming here that you do not have a planer as that would be the best way to flatten this board.

-- Website is finally up and running....www.woodandwrite.com

View TCCcabinetmaker's profile

TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1101 days


#4 posted 12-26-2011 06:52 AM

I feel special, because you didn’t go back and read my last response on your last thread that adresses the issue you are still having.

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

View Jeff82780's profile

Jeff82780

186 posts in 1740 days


#5 posted 12-26-2011 08:03 PM

d-allen i did that test u said to do my results were as follows. when the fence was all the way in the back only the first half of the board was edge jointed same with as the fence moived to the middle. However, when i moved the fence all the way foward the board was edge jointed perfectly! so know how do i make my tables co-planer?

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

353 posts in 1221 days


#6 posted 12-26-2011 09:37 PM

I might be wrong but I think you need to rule out the table alignment.

then do the rule flip one eighth thing with the rule and knife edges as ChuckV suggested.

Hope this helps, if the tool is out of whack you get out of whack results dude, might not be operator error except in the fact that you believe the tool to be correct.

View Al Killian's profile

Al Killian

85 posts in 1371 days


#7 posted 12-26-2011 09:40 PM

If the tables are out of wack, front to back. This can be fixed byadding machinest shims to the low side under the table. Add a small amount at a time and go back thru to check for flatness.

-- Owner of custom millwork shop

View Jeff82780's profile

Jeff82780

186 posts in 1740 days


#8 posted 12-26-2011 10:26 PM

ok. they are definatley not coplaner. i raised the infeed table all the way and then raised the outfeed table until it was in lign with the infeed. it seems to be that the outfeed table is saggin in about .009. So all i have to do is shim both sides of the outfeed table at the high side (since the table is saggin inward) with .009 feeler gauges?

View sawblade1's profile

sawblade1

754 posts in 1772 days


#9 posted 12-26-2011 10:48 PM

Been a while since I have been here But hers it Goes

Pic 1 Cup is noticeable but also a slight twist is in the board is visible

Pic 2 Cup is being Planed off on first two Corners

Pic 3 Note set jointer to deeper level 1/16 passes 12 passes is too many

Pic 4 This is why you need a wood Planer humans cannot feed wood like machines and this is why you have the taper, ( take note) also working with Lumber like framing lumber takes a little more effort like making sure it is dry and storing it properly while doing so Even after bringing it home from the home center!!!!! along with cups twist mus be taken out before the jointer this is by finding the flattest part of the 2x and cutting it off on the mitersaw and then working out the twist this way ( not do not do this if it is too twisted Grab a circular saw first !!!!!)
Hope this helps :)

-- Proverbs Ch:3 vs 5,6,7 Trust in the lord with all thine heart and lean not unto your own understanding but in all your ways aknowledge him and he shall direct your path elmerthomas81@neo.rr.com

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

353 posts in 1221 days


#10 posted 12-26-2011 11:20 PM

Jeff does this jointer have adjustments with the gib things on the dovetail slides? Saw somewhere that adjustments were possible on new fangled machines without resorting to cigarette filters and packing tape. Now my monster is old and has no means of adjustment for coplanar that I have found. I do have to use feeler gauges to get even a reasonable cut, one of these days I intend to remedy this with drilling and taping and hope not to destroy it in the process.

View Al Killian's profile

Al Killian

85 posts in 1371 days


#11 posted 12-26-2011 11:25 PM

If both(front and back) of the table are sagging then yes, shim both. I usally use brass shims that I get from local machine shops. They carry them in different thicknesses. Grab a few of each thickness and then you can mix and match to get it at proper level.

-- Owner of custom millwork shop

View able339's profile

able339

47 posts in 1121 days


#12 posted 12-26-2011 11:34 PM

Back off on the amount of pressure you are applying to the boards to start with. Take skinny cuts until you achieve flat.

-- TNJames

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1715 days


#13 posted 12-26-2011 11:47 PM

Come to think of it, I had an issue planing boards straight just a week ago – my euro style planer thicknesser was planing a bow after a chip had settled on the mount under the outfeed table. When the outfeed table was locked back down the chip was raising the end of the table so it wasn’t co-planar, causing a bow. Just goes to show that even the slightest misalignemt can cause problems.

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