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Forum topic by jim C posted 12-24-2011 03:24 AM 1290 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jim C

1467 posts in 2559 days


12-24-2011 03:24 AM

Since I’m blocked by Poopiekat, I have to respond by creating a new (or parallel) forum.

I’m in total agreement with you Poopiekat. There is no product, natural resource or entity we can’t produce on the North American continent. (Maybe Diamonds, but only South Africa mines them)

Walmart exists, as does the rest of the chinese supplied retail industry, due to a loss of good paying manufacturing jobs.

When those jobs went overseas, due to government mandates, people, who were once middle class, could not buy the products offered at their local independent business’s due to income loss

So the small independents were bulldozed and put out of business by the Wal-Marts, and Best Buys with cheap foreign crap, because of their buying power.

I believe this was a calculated plan by the corperations/government to dumb down the America’s for personal gain.

If we were to produce everything we import, there would again be a middle class that would purchase homes, televisions, refrigerators, nick-nacks textiles, etc. Hell, we would welcome immigrants to help us with the work we have.

Wouldn’t that be refreshing????

No reason we can’t, except for the government /corporate conspiracy that no one seems to see, or do anything about.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!


16 replies so far

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poopiekat

4224 posts in 3195 days


#1 posted 12-24-2011 03:43 AM

Thanks, JimC. I haven’t revisited my blocklist in a while. There does seem to be a groundswell of people sick of global-anything, and I too once lost a great medical-device position due to that nasty offshore outsourcing, and my every career move was made due to obsolescence due to offshore competition . I just don’t think people see the real cost of buying foreign, when our own livelihoods are in jeopardy as a result. I’m avoiding wikipedia stats, and speaking only from personal experience here. My father ran lathes and milling machines for a major electronics component manufacturer for 40 years for the same company, a job he loved. What the heck has happened to this country? ps, You can get ‘polar bear’ diamonds from mines in Nunavit, northern Canada, but, alas they are owned by the cartels.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 2429 days


#2 posted 12-24-2011 03:51 AM

It doesn’t work like that, it never has and it never will. Not unless you want to go Amish. While everyone would like to buy American made, anyone who wants to make a saving will go to Walmart. Those who want to make a buck will open stores like Walmart. It’s like that around the world. From an environmental pov it’s a disaster – container ships contribute 3.5-4% of greenhouse gases and it’s set to rise. You are kidding yourself if you think America will right itself (or any other country will right itself) by becoming self sufficient. There’s too much greed by corporations and consumers alike. For your utopia to work, you’d have to get rid of every piece of agricultural machinery in the land and replace it with manual labour. It’s a model, that given choice, no-one would choose.

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Woodwrecker

3925 posts in 3036 days


#3 posted 12-24-2011 03:52 AM

You hit the nail right on the head Jim.
This country better wake up, if it isn’t too late already.

-- Eric, central Florida

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Joe Lyddon

9432 posts in 3512 days


#4 posted 12-24-2011 04:30 AM

Jim,

“Government mandates”... did the government tell the factories to close here and have it done in Mexico, China, Taiwan, etc…. OR, did they just say it was OK to do that, just opening the doors?

Yes, it would be “Refreshing”... and our Country would be more standing on it’s own rather than draining us and Helping other countries

Immigrants… YES… Legal Immigrants... Illegals, by definition, is against the law, and should be dealt with… I would donate to help pay the transportation costs to get them back to where they would go.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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jim C

1467 posts in 2559 days


#5 posted 12-24-2011 04:58 AM

Poopekat,
Thanks for the response,
I was a Tool & Die Maker from the late 60’s into the mid 70’s when I started a small shop that grew into 340 employees. My company also produced medical devices, being Breast Biopsy trocars, Arthroscopic instruments, and orthopedic implants. I sold it and am now retired.
My point being, we could be anything we wanted to be, as the opportunities were endless.
The government passed incentives to large corporations, encouraging them to move to offshore manufacturing, thinking this would be a boom to our economy. It was a boom alright, that decision destroyed our manufacturing base. The floodgates opened up and our middle class was decimated. The sad thing is no one will admit it, and no one will do anything to reverse it.

I shouldn’t care, as I am well off, but I do for the future generations, my children and grandchildren and my country. But I’m losing the faith when I see the the groups degrading into “Wall Street Protestors”, blaming everyone trying to make a living, instead of marching on the government, who created this problem 30 years ago, and continues to do so today.
Politicians talk about creating jobs, but what jobs? service jobs? government jobs? B.S., we need private sector manufacturing jobs, created by small private business’s to bring back the middle class.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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Joe Lyddon

9432 posts in 3512 days


#6 posted 12-24-2011 07:17 AM

... and remember who really WARNED us about it?!

”That Giant Sucking Sound!”

Ross Perot… was dead-on RIGHT!
... if he had been elected, I don’t think we would be in the mess we are in right now…

... but, as they say…

”That’s water over the bridge…”
“That’s they way the cookie crumbles…”
“That’s the way mop flops…”
... etc. etc. etc…

Now, who is going to have the balls to fix it?!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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jim C

1467 posts in 2559 days


#7 posted 12-24-2011 10:59 AM

Right On Joe.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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poopiekat

4224 posts in 3195 days


#8 posted 12-24-2011 03:21 PM

Ross Perot, ah yes, “that great sucking sound you hear”...his undoing was his choice of a running mate, a highly decorated old soldier who, despite immense character and integrity acted like he didn’t know where he was. renners: Ever heard of Tarriffs? That would be the fix. Easy. Who needs goods from other countries? What happened to the SBA, from which hundreds of small start-up companies came to life?

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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CharlieM1958

16241 posts in 3679 days


#9 posted 12-24-2011 05:31 PM

Jim, I couldn’t agree more that North America has the resources to be self-sufficient. And it’s very tempting to look at how much better off we’d all be if that were the case.

Unfortunately, that’s nothing more than a pipe dream. Technology has made globalization possible, and profit motives have made it a reality. As long as there are underdeveloped countries where labor is cheap, mature economies like those in Europe and North America are going to suffer. Eventually, though not in our lifetimes, the playing field will level. As countries like China become more affluent, their labor forces will eventually refuse to work for peanuts, they will experience their own economic problems, and at some point foreign outsourcing will no longer be as profitable.

Yes, we’re all getting hosed right now, but we’re past the point where isolationism is a realistic solution.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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jim C

1467 posts in 2559 days


#10 posted 12-24-2011 05:41 PM

I’m afraid the level playing field means a life here like those in the 3d world. We’re on our way to that unless we isolate ourselves like Switzerland and Australia, who are doing pretty well by not playing patsy to the world, but look out for their own interests.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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Sawkerf

1730 posts in 2529 days


#11 posted 12-24-2011 07:23 PM

jimC – Switzerland and Austrailia are isloated!!?? Read up on their trade balances and imports/exports and try that one again. – lol

Charlie – I completely agree that isolationism is an unrealistic solution. The game has changed almost completely over the past 30 – 40 years and we either learn to play in this game or we go down in flames. Whining about the “old days” just fans the flames.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

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jim C

1467 posts in 2559 days


#12 posted 12-26-2011 04:02 PM

Bad choice of a word. How about we “mind our own p’s and Q’s, and look out for our own interests.
My choice of Aussies and Switzers was based on their economies. One has a slight trade negative balance and one has a large positive balance.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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poopiekat

4224 posts in 3195 days


#13 posted 12-26-2011 05:53 PM

To sawkerf and others: reciting that same old rhetoric about how ’globalism’ is the wave of the future, there is one inescapable fact: Poor countries, those who’ve been kept down with poverty, ignorance, and disease under oppressive and exploitive governments, all believe that the only way out of their mess is to ‘share’ the fruits of labor produced by the productive, educated free people of the world. If everyone pooled all their money together, all our assets together and divvied it up 6(?) billion ways so that every person on the planet had an equal amount, how long would it be before the 3rd worlders were starving again while the productive ones were generating more wealth again?

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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Sawkerf

1730 posts in 2529 days


#14 posted 12-27-2011 12:02 AM

The wealth would probably be redistributed back to about where it is now within a generation or so.

Why does everyone see globalization as something new. Humans have been trading for millennia – often across great distances of water, desert, etc. Marco Polo didn’t go from Venice (Italy) to China to see the sights and get some take out. He went with his father and uncle who had been doing it for years and had followed others.

The earliest known example of writing (cuneiform) is a system of record keeping. Some of that was certainly for trade purposes.

Globalism is the wave of the future because we’ve been going that way for a few thousand years already.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

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Nomad62

726 posts in 2418 days


#15 posted 12-27-2011 07:13 PM

I really cannot see anything to any of this that isn’t directly related to pure, unadulterated greed. Paying jobs were generated by companies that were forced into making them so by unions that were generated by greed of said companies. When the pundulum swung it allowed the unions to set back and pull in the money without giving much back to the workers; workers on strike now earn next to nothing while the high paid union execs still suck up very high pay. The big banks were generated by a need for secuity of ones money, but they got greedy and now set back figuring out ways to screw everyone out of their money once thought safe. The general pubic got pissed and went money market, just to have the Kenneth Lays and other selfish scum get greedy and take it all for themselves, destroying so many peoples’ futures. Greed. So if you don’t like outsourced products, and I can’t say I blame you, look again at the humiliating greed that so many people of our once fantastic country has taken advantage of and rethink using your local small business instead of any nation wide store, whether it be Sears or Ikea. Go local.

-- Power tools put us ahead of the monkeys

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