Beware the BORK

I don’t know anything about the Bork but I’d think that a safety device turning into a hazard at a 2% rate would be unacceptable from a design perspective.

-- Visualize whirled peas

Another reason not to put “safety” gizmos on a table saw but to rely on safe habits, brains, and a laser focus of attention and reason.

-- When the moderator chooses sides, his site sucks.

That’s quite a first post. I’ve had good performance from my BORK since August 2008…..really like it. It’s possible that the knife wasn’t tightened down fully.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

Hello All:
I just received the email shown below in italics from Bob Ross. I want to keep this whole thing completely transparent so here are my responses addressed directly to Bob:
First, I have no interest in a public debate, only in putting the information out there so that others can make informed decisions. Remember that I asked you to disseminate this information and you indicated you had no intention of doing so. You could have even framed the information within the context of “Four user errors have occurred resulting in… The errors typically occur due to… ” I simply had to let woodworkers know since you would not.
Second, in the original post I mentioned that I had issues with alignment and that you were helpful and that it seemed to be working fine. I also said it might have been user error. What else do you want? As to returning it because of the alignment issues, I certainly wish I had.
Third: You wrote: “using a star or lock washer and a fender washer” To which I say “Excuse Me?” What star or lock washer? None was included with mine and none are mentioned in the instructions which you sent me. Mine has always been mounted with just the flat washer as per the instructions. Here is the picture directly from the instructions, please note the text on the pic, it says nothing about a star or lock washer. Nor do the words star or lock appear anywhere in the document according to the acrobat search feature. Perhaps you amended the instructions somewhere along the line and didn’t bother telling current owners?
Fourth: When did you change the design to have an open end as opposed to the closed slot shown here http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1485? If the design still had a closed slot I would not be icing my collarbone right now.

Finally, regardless of what you wrote below the BORK did contact the saw blade in my case and perhaps in three other cases. How badly were the other three “user errors” injured?
I have gotten this information out to the woodworking community and my conscience is clear.
Stay safe,
Jim

On 11/20/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Ross wrote:
Jim,

Bob

I’m sorry if this is an improper response for here remove it if you like I really don’t want to start trouble but want to express my opinion.
That being, after looking at this accessory I wouldn’t use it. The design, the installation, just too prototype-ish for something purchased. I understand the safety issue of the riving knife but 4 accidents out of 200 sales. Not acceptable at all. I hope Bob has LOTS of liability insurance because if he doesn’t he could loose everything he owns one of these days when someone really gets hurt.
MIKE

The views and comments expressed here may not necessarily be the personal views of all persons but are solely the personal views and comments of the writer and not that of all LumberJocks or the LumberJocks internet site or it’s owners.

-- See pictures on Flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/44216106@N07/ And visit my Facebook page - facebook.com/MTEnterprises

Well ya gotta say that the BORK people were polite and informative.

I had a public debate with an importer of a speciality ( not woodworking) product, who, when I posted in a a hobby specific forum about the issues I was having with him, lost his friggin mind, lied, made things up, demanded the mods delete my posts, and called me names – so I published all his emails to me showing that he was both a cheat and a liar eventually he shut up and went away.

The Bork people seem to be saying that this is operator error in the form of an improper installation.
Which while it may be a fair critique (I certainly can’t speak to the installation), it sort of begs the question of how complicated can it be to install a lousy riving knife.

-- When the moderator chooses sides, his site sucks.

ON the other hand, any two-bit half-wit attorney can break a waiver at the courthouse door. In liability issues a waiver isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Git him.

Steve

-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

RipFence
I think the revelation is the picture of the closed slot versus the picture of your open slot.
You are correct that the closed slot would have prevented the riving knife from becoming a projectile.
If this was manufactured to reduce costs, that’s a serious problem.
Just my .02 cents

-- Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.

Thanks for the post. I have thought about a riving knife for my unisaw, and I will certainly pass on this one.
I know that, working in manufacturing, we couldn’t continue to operate with a two percent failure rate.

-- Mel

To the best of my knowledge this is the first accident that’s been brought to light…Bob mentioned that there had been 3 occasions where the back of a BORK knife contacted the blade due to user error, but the knives were secure enough that they stayed put, resulting in no injuries… which further suggests that this one was loose. He’s made some updates to the design, so it’s hard to know which versions are in question.

With only 200 units or so in the field, it basically is a prototype. AFAIK, they’re all hand made by Bob in his little workshop, not mass produced. He’s just a part time woodworker like many of us and retired military medic, trying to develelop an alternative to older saws that don’t have a riving knife, so why would anyone want to ”git him” Steve?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

Here is a post, a few months old, by an LJ designing a riving knife to retrofit an old Delta cabinet saw. His design, fit and finish looks very professional and robust. I would encourage anyone interested in riving knives and older table saws to check out the link to his blog. He’s finished it and has video. -Jack

closed slot versus the picture of your open slot.

There could arise a lawsuit irrespective of the reason for making it that way.
A device that harms people is per se a defective product. A device that is sold to be installed by the consumer (who is the average lowest common denominator mechanically challenged consumer who only owns one size pair of pliers from the utility chest of a Japanese car) must be so idiot proof that they can’t hurt themselves with it or else it is per se a defective design. I think everybody in this sordid little tale of drunkenness and cruelty is damn fortunate that the injuries were de minimis and not severe.
Maybe BORK will take a lesson from it.
At law: No proof of any liability arises from subsequent preventative measures because we as a society want manufacturers to improve their products

Juries are funny things. People blame lawyers, but it’s the jury (people like you – whoever you are) who makes the judgment and awards the damages. When Juries see a person who has been injured they feel sympathetically towards the person. It’s hard not to. Then they look over at the corporation represented by uninjured people and think “They have plenty of money, I’ll do something for the poor injured person.” and they make an award.
You can almost never win, when the plaintiff is injured.

The knife I got with my Hammer has an open slot.

The few times I’ve used it I was very sure to make it tighter than a Gnat’s rosebud on a freezing day.
This has hardened my resolve against safety gizmos.

-- When the moderator chooses sides, his site sucks.

I am not familiar with Bork. I have installed an after-market riving knife on my Powermatic a couple of years ago. It does have an open slot. I have been very pleased with it and I have had no problems. I have attached the website to the maker if you are interested in trying someone else’s. Lee is an excellent person to work with and very responsive to questions.

http://www.leestyron.com/sharksplitter.php

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

Knotttscot,

While I do not advocate lawsuites as a way of life, nor do I discourage people from using their brains to invent something useful, people who short circuit the development and testing process in order to rush a product to market in hopes of making a quick buck at the risk of people’s lives, deserve to be “gitten” (gotted?). Instead of a bad bruise, Jim could have been KILLED. And being part-time tinkerer, former medic, or savior of mis-placed children does not relieve him of his liability. What is most disturbing, is his reluctance to admit a problem with a product, that with the limited exposure seen here, sends chills up and down my spine.

Anyone who jumps into a market niche that big manufacturers have studiously avoided does so at considerable risk. At the very least, he should have sought Underrighter’s Laboratory approval and had several millions of dollars in liability insurance. To do otherwise is at the least overly optomistic, and at the worst lunacy. It’s expensive, but is so for a reason; product safety.

I bear Bob no ill will, but by golly, this is going to bite him in the patushka. Scott, I find your posts informative, and your willingness to help fellow LJs refreshing, but I must disagree with you here. But anyway, have a happy and SAFE Thanksgiving.

Steve

-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

Hello All:
Since my last post Bob Ross and I have exchanged a few emails. In my effort to maintain full transparency and fairness I have copied them below. The first is his response to the specific questions I posed in an earlier post. Below that you will see my responses and his responses etc. As before, I will let you make your own decisions about using or buying B0RK and about dealing with Mr. Ross. I need to be shed of this as I actually have a demanding job and I now feel that I have discharged my moral duty of making woodworkers aware of potential risks. As I stated in my original post it is possible that I may have made a user error but for the life of me I cannot see what that was. Finally, while you guys don’t know me, rest assured that I am not the type of user who owns one pair of pliers. While I was earning my mechanical engineering degree I worked for three summers in an extrusion die shop. These days I run a research lab where I build or modify all of the equipment myself. So, while I may not have credentials as a master tool maker I do have some experience and am not completely incompetent.
Be safe,
Jim

• 
  Bob’s first Response to my email.
  First I want to correct something you posted. At no time did I “indicate” that I was not going to do something regarding notifying past, current or future users about potential dangers. When I twice asked you for specific details, your response was “Beats me what went wrong”. I wanted specifics in order to formulate a response. I have never claimed the design to be perfect but I will stand by my earlier statement: Unless something was allowed to become misaligned or loose, the splitter CANNOT contact the saw blade.

• 
  My response
  First: The impression I got was that you wanted to call this another case of user error and pass it off as “not Bob’s fault”. As to my response of “beats me”, it does beat me, what else do you want me to say? I don’t know why I got shot by your . Further, I’m not sure what my obligation is to help you re engineer your product. Did you intend to pay me an engineering consulting fee? I doubt that. Do you even intend to refund my purchase fee? I doubt that too. Finally, where exactly have you made others aware of the previous three “user errors”? That would help me believe you might have actually posted my experience.
  Second: I will post this to SMC for you. I’ll wait for your responses to these points.
  Third: I didn’t do any name calling, that was someone on the forum.
  Forth: So, just to confirm, you changed the instructions but did not send out updates to users.
  Fifth: While the open slot might be a convenience, a closed slot has a safety value you might consider.

• *
  Bob’s second response
  Here’s one example of “user error”. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...=&fpart=1&vc=1

• 
  My second response
  Okay, but did you post that or the user? Looks like it was someone named Andrew.

• 
  Bobs third response
  I’m very sorry you got hurt and I’m very grateful it wasn’t worse but I’m tired of playing 5th grade with you. I strongly believe you failed to keep your connections tight and you’re blaming me for that failure. Provide definitive proof that the failed because of something for which I am responsible and I will refund your purchase price and provide full disclosure to the woodworking public and any potential ** buyers in the future. Except for responding to any proof that you provide, I will no longer communicate with you.