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Having trouble choosing a glue... epoxy or CA - any ideas?

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Forum topic by FoxMountainWoods posted 11-11-2011 04:55 PM 1471 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


11-11-2011 04:55 PM

Topic tags/keywords: glue glue choice epoxy cyanoacrylate question

Hi there fellow LJ’s.

I have been trying to choose a glue for the following application – I am gluing a piece of 16 guage stainless steel wire into an oversized end-grain hole – wire is about 1.3mm and the hole is about 1.6mm (1/16 inch) and about 3/4 of an inch deep. The wire is for a hook on a drop spindle so it will take some weight and torque, but not more than the 50g of the spindle itself and the weight of a ball of yarn.

First attempt was with G2 epoxy – seems to work for the max weight it will receive but I had difficulty getting the epoxy down into the hole (used a smaller piece of wire with limited success). Also, when cured, I can pull the hook out and twist it around if I use a little force. Does any one think that there is a better option, maybe a cyanoacrylate from Lee Valley? http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,110&p=42966 – I really have no experience with cyanoacrylates except using crazy glue for fixing things around the house – What do people think?

Thanks!

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com


15 replies so far

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1448 days


#1 posted 11-11-2011 04:57 PM

Hmmm, having a hard time visualizing this. Can you perforate the side, thread the wire through, and pin it? sounds like it’s be visible, hmm. Can you split the drop spindle, anchor the wire with a cross pin, then glue it back up? I’m just not sure I’d trust any glue to this application. I may be misunderstanding it, though. Good luck!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View FoxMountainWoods's profile

FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


#2 posted 11-11-2011 05:07 PM

Maybe this image will help – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drop_spindles.jpg
One on the left has a wire hook, while some use a simple cup hook – I am trying to avoid a cup hook because I think that the find threads in a cup hook would not last long in end grain.

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com

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FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


#3 posted 11-11-2011 05:08 PM

left of center that is…

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3590 posts in 2715 days


#4 posted 11-11-2011 05:32 PM

Why don’t you rough up the end of the wire that goes into the hole? Give the epoxy something to “grab”.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View crank49's profile

crank49

3524 posts in 1726 days


#5 posted 11-11-2011 05:35 PM

You say the threads won’t last long in end grain, but as an alternate you are trying to use a smooth wire that has no threads at all?
Before I saw your image I was thinking a solution might be to add threads to the wire.

But -

I’d go for the cup hook, make the hole bigger and fill it with epoxy, then embed the threads in the epoxy.

It is sometimes useful to clean the threads really well with lacquer thinner and/or acetone to be sure the epoxy bonds to the metal.
You can increase the torque capacity of the assembly by filing a flat or notch in the threads before embedding in the epoxy.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4525 posts in 1829 days


#6 posted 11-11-2011 05:45 PM

CA glue is available in 3 different viscosities: thin, medium and thick. I would try a thick CA glue for this application. It is much easier to work with than epoxy and it has equal, or superior, holding power.

You have the option of applying an accelerator to CA glue that will cause it to set up almost instantly. You might almost fill the hole with CA glue and spray the accelerator onto the wire. Then insert it quickly.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7832 posts in 2403 days


#7 posted 11-11-2011 06:02 PM

Cyanoacrylate glue is not what I would use. It’s brittle and hard
to get to do what you want in real load-bearing circumstances.

An anaerobic-curing type super glue may be a better choice. I’ve
fooled with the stuff a bit and the kit I had came with a bottle
of very fine power… maybe glass. You could fill a hole with the
powder, saturate it with the liquid glue, and it would harden
into one mass.

“The Last Glue” is one such type. Neat to have on hand anyway,
if a bit pricey for experimenting on one project.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5320 posts in 1553 days


#8 posted 11-12-2011 02:15 AM

In defense of G2, one of the best epoxies out there, My guess is that you tried to mix a very small amount. It’s very hard to get proportions accurate at volumes less than a couple of ounces and the smaller the amount mixed, the more critical the mixing ratio. It would have hardened like a rock and you would easily twist off the wire before you broke the glue to wire joint if it were properly mixed and cured.

Generally speaking epoxy is best for jobs large enough to justify mixing at least 1 1/2 to 2 ounces.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View FoxMountainWoods's profile

FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


#9 posted 11-12-2011 04:28 PM

Very good to know that about epoxy – I was indeed mixing small amounts, perhaps 1/4 of an ounce.

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com

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FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


#10 posted 11-12-2011 04:30 PM

What is the best way to mix epoxy? 1:1 ratios I find easy, the 2:1 of G2 epoxy is more difficult. I was using a small plastic medicine cup with 2 cc graduations. Anyone use some other way?

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1332 days


#11 posted 11-12-2011 04:36 PM

You could use a small gram scale.
Also, you could always use a toothpick to get the epoxy in the hole.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5320 posts in 1553 days


#12 posted 11-12-2011 06:55 PM

I just did a three part (so far) blog on epoxy use, mixing etc. http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/4499
It should help you understand some of this.

Different epoxies have different ratios and different tolerances for poor mixing but in small quantities like 1/4 oz it would be very easy to be way off ratio and end up, as you did, with a mix that never achieves any of it’s true characteristics.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

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FoxMountainWoods

30 posts in 1343 days


#13 posted 11-15-2011 02:11 PM

I read your blogs Paul, very good info.

Thanks NiteWalker – I have a scale that reads to 0.1g accuracy, so I think I will try weighing my next mix. I see that on the product specs that the weight mixing ratio is slightly different than the volume ratio – http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/G2_TDS.pdf

-- Scott Hubley - Nova Scotia, Canada - http://www.foxmountainwoods.com

View bobbyjwill's profile

bobbyjwill

26 posts in 1139 days


#14 posted 11-16-2011 08:58 AM

i’ll throw my two pennies out there, but this only applies if you are not going for looks in the final outcome, but if it was hidden and/or cleaned up good i think you will be alright as the finished dried bonding has a light gray color to it, that being said, i have had good outcomes using the “quick jb weld” for a variety of bonding different materials together… thats all i got

View Randolph Torres's profile

Randolph Torres

295 posts in 2283 days


#15 posted 11-22-2011 06:02 AM

?well did you find a solution that worked.

-- another tip from cooperedpatterns

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