IPE vs. Teak... errr something else?

Well, as far as I know they are equally well suited to life outdoors. However I believe you may be able to find Ipe in larger sizes more readily. Teak is VERY hard on tools (cutting edges dull very quickly) I have a friend in Alaska who build his whole deck, Porch & outdoor furniture from Ipe and swears buy it. If it holds up there I guess it will work anywhere.

-- Chris

Ipe would be the way to go. Cost and availability are the major factors.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Hi Brian,

Ipe is a good choice. But I agree with Gary about the cost and availability. Other wood choices for outdoor furniture are cypress, cedar and white oak. These will weather well.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

I just picked up a car load of surplus wood from a local deck distributor, cost me about $2/bd foot. Ipe, some dense South American “redwood” that looks more like a weatherproof mahogany breed. I think they warranty it for two decades without a finish.

Among other things, I’m going to make some furniture out of it.

So see what your deck place has in their scrap pile, they may be willing to sell it to you cheap.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

In addition to what’s been said, Lyptus and Jatoba are other options.

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

I am currently working on an outdoor table and decided on white oak.

-- David

Dorje,

I would never have thought of using Lyptus…. I guess I just made a few assumptions when people told me it was a good twin for Mahogany.

-- Chris

Ipe, or as I call it – Organic Steel, is probably the best choice for being impervious to elements. But weight will be a factor since it’s almost 6 lbs. per bf. – monstorously heavy. The good part about that is that it will take a busload of thieves to steal an Ipe table from your back yard. Or even to move it over a foor or two.

One of the heaviest woods I’ve seen – it sinks in water. It makes this talcum powder yellow sawdust, and it’s tough to use screws on. You need to absolutely pre-drill. Make the receiving hole bigger than you usually wouldd, because it snaps screws like soda crackers.

Great feedback and advice everyone… thank you.

Dan, excellent idea regarding the deck distributor. I’ll check into that.

David, keep us posted on your outdoor table.

Boardman, thanks for info… quite insightful.

Cheers.

-- Brian, Washington

If you plan to do any handplaning on it, sell tickets! It’ll raise a bunch of smiles ;-)

Drill before nailing, drill before screwing, but extra drill bits, invest in a drill doctor. Get some extra bandsaw blades and send out those cross cut saws for sharpening before you get started.

For joining, only glueup fresh cuts. You’ll probably have the best results with gorilla glue.

All the talk about end checks is greatly exaggerated. I used one coating of aussie timber oil on a nice chunk and it’s not checked to speak of. There are a couple slight openings that are too narrow for a piece of paper. They seemed to be about a quarter inch and haven’t grown at all over four years.

-- Made lots of sawdust and pounded some nails. Haven't finished anything, though.

i would say Ipe. I saw it on this old house and they said it would last for 50+ years. plus i think its cheaper and teak will destroy your blades. especially hss blades. they do dull carbite too.

Update – I was planing some Ipe today and it creates the most pervasive fine dust I’ve ever seen. As bad as drywall dust.

Brian,

It seems to be less commonly used, but if Locust (Black or Honey) is available in your area, you should have a look. I know a few people that have used it extensively for outdoor work—from fence posts to furniture. I haven’t seen the fence posts, but locust is reputed to have better rot resistance than green-treated lumber. In central NY it costs me $1.50/bf (greenish to partially dried—this guy doesn’t keep it on hand long enough to dry it). Also, I believe it’s the hardest wood native to North America (Janka scale). I’m drying a few pieces to work with right now, but won’t be able to tell you about my experiences with them until the end of summer.

Oh—and some of the locust pieces I’ve seen were absolutely stunning. Locust can have amazing grain color.

-b

(Late addition)

Here’s a nice link to some locust pics:

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/locust.htm

First off, let’s dispense with any notion of ”working” either Teak or Ipe. You, my friend, will be ”machining” these two. Hand tools are an exercise in futility and folly. If all I had was Teak and Ipe and ONLY hand tools with which to work them, I’d take up jogging. That said, use a mask, heck, maybe even a respirator if you have to work inside. Watch the fresh sawn edges too, either species can put out some wicked splinters. I have pushed a plane on both but I think that sort of abuse to tools is unwarranted and besides, I’m the one that has to resharpen those blunted edges.

So I vote for Ipe. Teak is great but in short [expensive] supply. I’ve got a porch deck made of Ipe that I put on more than ten years ago. It has exceeded all of my expectations. With little intervention on my part it will in all likelihood last longer than I will. It is covered and west facing but is still gets plenty wet here in FL. Mama wants the wet-look [it turns chocolate brown] all the time but I prefer the soft gray when dry. End checks are insignificant. Ipe is heavier than teak and as stated previously will dull your cutting tools just as quickly if not sooner. I burned up three countersinks drilling screw holes and two plug cutters making bungs.

ALSO, if you use either one, use ONLY stainless steel fasteners. No-Corrode, coated, hot dipped galvanized will without exception FAIL in short order. I used all three when I first put down the deck. I hesitated in plugging all of the screw holes as I wanted to make sure the screws would hold up as I’d heard about Ipe’s tendency to eat up plain steel fasteners. Three years into it and I found significant degradation to every one. Some even would have to be drilled out as they snapped off when I tried to unscrew them. They were just eaten up. Since replacing them with SS, I have checked over the intervening years and none have degraded. In other words, I should’ve used SS right off the bat and been done with it. But nooooooo….

So now I guess I’ll have to plug them holes like the missus prefers. Maybe one more season. Also, if you want to finish your Ipe, search out some Penofin. They make a coating formulated specifically for resinous tropicals like Ipe and Teak. Hope some of this helps.

always,
J.C.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

Ipe is an amazing wood, and exceedingly hard. Very pretty too – very walnut-like.

-- http://newmissionworkshop.com

I do believe they’re selling Ipe in a tongue and groove condition now to lessen the amount of fasteners.

For something a little different you might try purpleheart.

USDA rates Purpleheart high in durability and very resistant to rot. Stake test done in the 1950’s report that a 2×2 stake will last from 10 to 15 years in the ground.

Quick check of internet prices : teak$28.50, ipe $7.50, purpleheart $5.25, white oak $4.50

Like the other woods mentioned, purpleheart is quite hard.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

Great info everyone. This might be a silly question… but given how hard Ipe and Teak will these woods greatly reduce the life of my jointer and planer blades?

-- Brian, Washington

You might want to try Cumaru. It’s also called Brasilian Teak and is very hard/long lasting. You can even special order it at Menards. Beware that it will dull blades quickly.

Hi Brian,

In answer to your question about the hardness if ipe and teak the answer is yes they will shorten the life of all your blades. Both contain silica (sand) which is partly responsible for their hardness. Ipe and cumaru will dull saw, planer and jointer blades more quickly than woods such as cedar, white oak or cypress.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

I like the look of White oak outside furniture. The fact that it is easier on the tools and cheaper are just bonus.

Did I miss the part about REDWOOD for outdoor furniture? Here on the west coast it’s still plentiful and about $4/BF for pretty good stuff. It’s like cedar, good too. Also here we have a type of Cypress which is good in the weather and amazingly enough EUCALYPTUS will work if you can get it dry without checking and doing the hulla. Black locust is good in the weather as well.

Cheers
WDY

-- WDY, alderwood.com

I just did a quick check at the local sawmill and white Oak is selling for $2.50 bf select
http://www.polleywood.com/price.html
I know what I’ll be using on my glider this year.

Thanks for the great info

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

You might also want to see if cypress is available in your area. Both in new growth and sinker varieties, cypress shows good weather resistance capabilities. When I lived in the New Orleans area, I got my cypress from Acadian Hardwood in Pontchatoula.

Good luck

chris

-- Chris

Ipe would be my choice. I recently did some deck furniture in Meranti which is probably not as hard as Ipe but also produces a very fine red dust. I chose the meranti over the Ipe because all the sizes I needed were in stock, whereas the Ipe would have required special order for some of the pieces. Here’s a website from a supplier in Buffalo who ships. http://www.advantagelumber.com/
They carry other tropical woods as well. good to get some price comparisons.

-- John, Long Island, NY

Brian, Ipe will even shorten your life if you need to lug it around much. It’s extremely heavy for the size. Seriously. Ipe doesn’t even float.

John,

There’s a yard a bit SW of Elizabeth who stocks enormous quantities of Ipe. I don’t have the particulars handy, but let me know and I’ll dig ‘em up if you want them.

-- Made lots of sawdust and pounded some nails. Haven't finished anything, though.

Just to chime in, I built a walkway out of Garapa (also called Brazilian Ash) this summer and it was fairly comfortable to work with and seems very well rated for weather.

I’ve built a few outdoor furniture pieces from Ipe and echo most of the other comments here. Great durability outdoors but your bandsaw blades and router bits will cringe in fear at the mere sight of it. I’ve got a couple of scrap pieces as runners under an outdoor cathouse (for a stray) that sit in water and snow all year round and look as good as new after 4 years without any finish. A lot of sun can cause surface checking on unfinished Ipe though. I’ve also got a picnic table built out of Garapa when my Ipe supplier happened to be out of 2×6 Ipe. It works a bit easier than Ipe and has some of the same gluing/finishing issues that Ipe has but not as bad.

-- Use the fence Luke