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User error, or bad design?

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Forum topic by Letorix posted 10-24-2011 04:01 AM 1041 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


10-24-2011 04:01 AM

So I know its a bit of user error, notice the two dings on the right…those aren’t from my hammer but from the chisel handle. I think its where the chisel seats the handle.

Do the high end chisels incorporate a design to help users? Or was this just user error and the wrong tool?


21 replies so far

View interpim's profile

interpim

1132 posts in 2110 days


#1 posted 10-24-2011 04:05 AM

I can’t really tell from the picture, but it looks like your going further down than half-way. Usually you can go in halfway on one side, and then flip the piece and come in the other side. This also prevents tear out on the other side of the hole as well.

-- San Diego, CA

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ksSlim

984 posts in 1541 days


#2 posted 10-24-2011 04:28 AM

True mortise chisels have longer blades. Bench chisels should be used inaccordance to blade length.

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


#3 posted 10-29-2011 03:30 AM

Yes you’re right I was trying to go too far, flipping over made things much easier. I’ve been eyeing these:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=66737&cat=1,41504

Seems there is much difference been used and new prices on Ebay on mortise chisels.

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interpim

1132 posts in 2110 days


#4 posted 10-29-2011 08:47 AM

those are some nice looking chisels, and nice price too… I wonder if anyone here has a set of these that could do a review for us.

-- San Diego, CA

View drfunk's profile

drfunk

223 posts in 1328 days


#5 posted 10-29-2011 10:49 AM

I have a set that I was planning to put into service in the next few weeks – best deal in mortise chisels I could find. I would have swore someone did a review around here though…

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ksSlim

984 posts in 1541 days


#6 posted 10-29-2011 12:27 PM

I have that set. Machine finish was coarse on arrival, but with a little work, they’re a great value.
Hold an edge really well and are beefy enough that I’m not afraid to lever on them.
For me, time to tune was worth the $aving$ compared to the primo brands.

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


#7 posted 10-31-2011 02:22 AM

Any suggestions on type of chisel or tool to help on these joints? My bench chisels are wearing me out. I’ve got the leg up in there almost 3/4 so far but sneaking up on this thing is tedious!

http://lumberjocks.com/Letorix/blog/26209#comment-1088027

And here is the review on the Mortise Chisels

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/1772

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2300 days


#8 posted 10-31-2011 02:28 AM

I have those chisels, and reviewed them here:
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2369
to sum it up – expect to put in some (more than usual) elbow grease to get them clean,lapped and sharp but after that they work fairly well for a bargain price.

Letorix – did you chisel the entire thing?!? I sure hope you didn’t but saws it as close to the lines as possible and then chiseled the reminder which really shouldn’t take all day (although on this size joinery it does take a while longer than smaller scale)

tip – lean to cut closer to the line (requires practice and feeling more comfortable with hand saws)

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


#9 posted 10-31-2011 02:43 AM

I sawed and chiseled out the waste, but I sawed on the side of the line to prevent error, still the back side of the dovetail was all cut by chisel and I’m trying to make this joint tight so its taking a looonnnggg time!

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drfunk

223 posts in 1328 days


#10 posted 10-31-2011 10:45 AM

Letorix - This is ambitious work for what appears to be budget conscious chisels. Hard maple will likely make even the A2 Lie Nielsens lose an edge in no time. (How are your sharpening skills by the way?)

I personally would have used my router to reduce the waste as much as possible. If you don’t want to go that route, you could make some vertical kerfs about a 1/2 inch apart down near to the scribe line – then chop those away with a 1/2 inch chisel. (Some people call those relief cuts I think?) After that, I would pare down to the line with whatever wicked sharp chisel worked best. Trying to limit the width I am chopping away to whatever chisel gives me the cleanest break seems to be my strategy. I rarely use my wide chisels for anything more than defining lines or final cleaning when paring.

Ultra hard woods can really expose the budget tools I found. Back in the day, I upgraded my chisels to these guys: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22071 – made in Sheffield Eng- and I really started to see the difference quality steel can make. These are actually a surprisingly good deal and have excellent ergonomics I found – I still use them today because they hold an edge so well and sharpen quickly.

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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


#11 posted 11-01-2011 06:37 PM

The bench chisels are buck bros, and I use the scary sharp method. Its just very awkward to work on the cuts on the table, mainly because of the lengths of the chisels and the shape of the cut.

The chisels seem to hold an edge until you bang on them, them if you bang really hard you can see small chips on the blades edge.

Oh well slowly but surely.

The leg by the bench vise is ready to go…

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drfunk

223 posts in 1328 days


#12 posted 11-02-2011 04:46 AM

That’s a fine looking joint in some beefy wood. Chipping? Yikes! Yes, definitely put some full size paring chisels on your Xmas list.

As for sharpening, what grit do you go to? Do you hone a micro-bevel at 30 degrees?

One other idea I had if you wanted to stick with the traditional tools is hog out as much waste as you can with a brace and auger.

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Letorix

119 posts in 1155 days


#13 posted 11-02-2011 05:13 AM

1000 grit, yes I have a micro bevel, not sure of the exact angle. I’ll try and take a photo later.

I made some progress on the dovetail tonight, almost finished.

http://lumberjocks.com/Letorix/blog/26209

Rising dovetail is definitely not trivial… I’m learning though.

I think I need one of these too:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=30014&cat=1,41504

View ksSlim's profile

ksSlim

984 posts in 1541 days


#14 posted 11-02-2011 05:14 AM

Even with Budget tools, thin slices saves edges. Mantra I learned ago. With better tools, same holds true.
When edges are dulled, chunks happen, then, you must sharpen. Less expensive tools sharpen easier, better tools hold an edge longer but take more time for a primo edge. Hog out what you can with the means at hand. Trim, pare, and true with a keen edge.

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3386 posts in 1846 days


#15 posted 11-02-2011 08:40 AM

It sounds like from the above conversations that you don’t have a mortise machine to cut the mortises…...

But…..if you’ve got a drill press and a set of Forstner bits you could lay out the mortise, use the Forstner bit to make over-lapping holes from one end to the other on the mortise…..then clean up the mortise on all sides and ends with a chisel…...lot less work…...:)

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

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