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Forum topic by pierce85 posted 10-22-2011 09:36 PM 1457 views 0 times favorited 47 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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pierce85

508 posts in 1250 days


10-22-2011 09:36 PM

Topic tags/keywords: tip modern

Oh what the hell, right? If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

I don’t usually proclaim the reasons for my non-belief in a deity or deities because it’s like asking someone to explain why they don’t believe in winged, purple elephants dispensing pixie dust.

What’s odd is many religious believers think that by simply stating “No, I don’t believe in God” their beliefs have come under attack. I suspect that what these “embattled believers” are saying is “shut up, we don’t want to hear your views.” I actually agree with this sentiment.

If I never had to mention or even entertain the thought that I don’t believe in God or gods ever again, I would be an extremely happy camper. But, as long as some folks feel the need to publicly proclaim their god beliefs in all the subtle and not-so-subtle ways they do, it’s only fair that expressions of non-belief in “winged, purple elephants dispensing pixie dust” type entities be given the same latitude.

In other words, don’t complain when the response to god-talk is met with non-god talk. If you really would like us to shut up, I think you can probably figure out how that could best be accomplished given the above.


47 replies so far

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pierce85

508 posts in 1250 days


#1 posted 10-22-2011 10:00 PM

Decided to shorten the above (it’s still too long) and put the statistics here.

The latest statistics show that around 92% of all “Americans” believe in God, at least according to Gallup. Europe is much different. For example, only 23% of the Swedish population admit to believing in God.

The good news is that belief in God has been steadily but slowly declining in the US since the late 60s, with indications of an accelerating rate of decline over the past decade or two – the 90s have been called a “secular boom.”

Perhaps the biggest shift has been the increase in individuals admitting (coming out the closet) that they don’t believe in God. That’s the highest it’s ever been at approximately 7% now compared to 1% in the late 60s. In short, the “no religion” category is the fastest growing demographic in these studies.

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David Grimes

2072 posts in 1328 days


#2 posted 10-22-2011 10:23 PM

Like it or not, the “religious” level of society ebbs and flows over time. It always has and always will. Individuals go back and forth (or sideways).

I respect your non-belief status for yourself today. Our belief status is personal and varies greatly even among the believers. We’ll just all see what we come up with during our less than 100 revolutions around the Sun and see what happens.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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poopiekat

3671 posts in 2422 days


#3 posted 10-22-2011 10:31 PM

Environmentalism is the New Religion. Think about it.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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pierce85

508 posts in 1250 days


#4 posted 10-22-2011 10:40 PM

David, thank you for respecting it for at least today! :-)

Religious belief obviously ebbs and flows over time, but in some countries/societies it’s been remarkably stable from a demographic perspective. The US is one of those countries.

Here are the Gallup results with the question asked differently during the 70s-90s

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David Grimes

2072 posts in 1328 days


#5 posted 10-23-2011 12:47 AM

I would not trust the pools as absolute anything unless I knew their sample size’s population parameters matched the at least the latest census (sex, race, nationality, part of the country, socio-economic, etc. etc.) I would bet that it is really less now than stated above.

LOL… I will respect anyone’s belief on this or anything else today, tomorrow and hereafter whether it remains as is or ebbs and flows. It’s only when people on either /all side(s) of any issue try to self-justify their beliefs by belittling, berating and twisting and/or shoving words into the mouths of the other side that I can’t stand or would elicit a like response from me (even stooped to the low trash-talk level that they can understand).

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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pierce85

508 posts in 1250 days


#6 posted 10-23-2011 01:24 AM

David, that’s the right skepticism to have. Sampling issues are important and should always be front and center. Gallup has been doing this type of survey research since the 30s and are considered one of the top polling organizations in the world. Besides, other polling organizations like the Pew Research Center, Harris Poll, ARIS (American Religious Identification Survey), and others, have all reported similar statistics for years. Gallup has just been at it longer.

On top of all this, we have decades of research on religious beliefs and attitudes, church attendance, denominational shifts, demographic shifts in religion by race and ethnicity, and so on. If you want to see where the future of religion is heading in the US, look to Latinos. The largest ebbs and flows in religion today (in the US) are ethnic-based demographic shifts.

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dakremer

2466 posts in 1779 days


#7 posted 10-23-2011 02:18 AM

I believe what ever Tom Cruise believes…..

also…David I thought earth was flat and the sun revolves around us???

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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David Grimes

2072 posts in 1328 days


#8 posted 10-23-2011 02:26 AM

You believe it’s okay to jump up and down spastically on Oprah’s couch ? Dang ! ;=)

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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William

9149 posts in 1530 days


#9 posted 10-23-2011 02:33 AM

I personally have a strong belief in God.
However, I am thankful that I live in a country where you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe. I respect your beliefs. I usually don’t discuss religion. I have a few friends who don’t believe in God and will try to bait me into the whole God/No God debate. I say to them the same thing I will say here. I am an American. I am free to believe in God. You are free to believe there is no God. Unless one of us are a little unsure of how commited we are to our beliefs, then I see no reason for us to discuss it or try to change each other’s minds.

-- http://wddsrfinewoodworks.blogspot.com/

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David Grimes

2072 posts in 1328 days


#10 posted 10-23-2011 02:35 AM

Great way to put it, William.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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dakremer

2466 posts in 1779 days


#11 posted 10-23-2011 03:11 AM

not only did i think it was ok….I thought it was very spiritually moving….watching him….jump…...up and down…..on a sofa…...on the Oprah show….Mission Impossible is such a good movie!

pierce i have to ask (and only curious about the point of view of a non-believer)

Where do you believe the very first piece of mass came from (living or dead)? That is what I struggle with. I believe in the big bang theory/evolution…...however it HAD to start from somewhere. even if it only started with one single cell….one single atom…..where did that atom come from? Thats where, for me, a higher power comes into play – its my only explanation. not trying to start a debate/fight with you…just curious to your view

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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David Grimes

2072 posts in 1328 days


#12 posted 10-23-2011 09:26 AM

The First Law of the Universe: There is no such thing as nothing. Hard to argue with that !

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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ChuckV

2438 posts in 2215 days


#13 posted 10-23-2011 02:12 PM

“Empty” space is not how we think it is. Particles come into existence spontaneously. If you study some physics, you will find that our intuition, which evolved in dealing with things about the size and speed of a human, fail terribly far outside of those ranges.

It does take a leap of “faith” to get over the limit of our intuitions, but these seemingly bizarre ideas have been experimentally validated over and over again.

Richard Feynman said, “If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics.”

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

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miles125

2179 posts in 2693 days


#14 posted 10-23-2011 02:22 PM

The biggest leap of faith is finding yourself on a planet whirling without end around a fireball of a star and insisting absolutely nothing out of the ordinary can possibly be going on.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

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patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#15 posted 10-23-2011 07:50 PM

As someone who honestly know what I believe I must say it seems most nonbelievers I see riticule, belittle, and insult christians. It’s no wonder that some take it so personally.

I’m not saying it doesn’t go the other way too but from what I’ve seen I can understand it.

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