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New Guy needs table saw advice

4K views 34 replies 20 participants last post by  lilredweldingrod 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi Guys, I am new to the forum and am about to set up a shop in my basement. I have wired 220v to run a table saw. I was planning to buy the Grizzley G071P hybrid as I wanted to keep saw cost under $1000.00 and need a saw with dust collection capability. Unfortunately, I have read on this forum of severe problems the blade allignment issues with the Grizzley Hybrid; some of which seem not to be resolved after some months, or require the saws to be returned to the factory. I don't want to run into this kind of issue with a new saw and have to return it to the factory for repair. It will cost me $100.00 to have movers help me get the saw in the basement and another $100. to remove (plus the aggrivation…) So I am looking for an alternative. I have read very good things about the Craftsman 22116, which I understand is made by Orion. Who is Orion?
Unfortunately they are out of stock nationwide, so I am looking for your input on the Craftsman and alternatives. What are the must have features of a Hybrid Table saw. What would you buy? I am just a weekend hobbyist, but plan to make furniture so need something that will have the needed precsion. Thanks for your input.
John
 
#5 ·
I kow you read some things about Grizzely having some issues but the G1023RL is getting great reviews. It is a bit over 1K but you get a built in router table with it too which is great to have.

Closer to the $500 mark you could get a ridgid, I had two of them, they were work horses.

I guess my advice would be if you are going to set aside $1000 for it get a 3hp saw to start.
 
#8 ·
I agree with ShaneA. The table saw is the heart of your shop, so I would try to get the best one that you can afford. Its a good idea to look at a good used saw on Craig's List, or Ebay. Know your prices, and be patient…there are a lot of very good saws on there for half the going rate of a new one.
 
#11 ·
I have had the Grizzly saw you are interested in since last Feb. It required very little tweaking and has remained dead on with no further tweaking or wandering from alignment. Check out the business card holders I posted today. All the parts were cut with this saw and my 'super sled'. Obviously, I am very pleased with mine but I have read the horror stories from others. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this saw to my best friend.
 
#12 ·
If you're just starting out, and your profile states that you are new to woodworking, you would probably be best served by buying a high-quality, older, used contractor saw. You can take it apart and lug it up and down the basement stairs yourself. (Many contractor saws can be easily converted to 220v and adapted to work well with a dust collector)
If you buy used, whether it's a contractor saw or a cabinet saw, you'll know if it works before it goes down the stairs. Then you'll save on the purchase price and if you decide to stick with woodworking you can sell the used saw for what you paid for it when it's time to upgrade. That's not going to happen with a new hybrid saw. Saving all that money is important because you're going to have plenty of other things you'll need to buy.
A table saw is a very important piece of equipment and you want to buy right, but buying new is no guarantee of that, especially with a $1000 budget. You'll find that for each project you complete your percentage of time spent on the tablesaw will actually be quite small - frighteningly small compared to what can spent on one.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Orion is a subsidiary of Steel City. They've manufactured the former Ridgid R4511 hybrid saw, the former Craftsman 22104, 22114, 22124, and the current 22116, as well as the former Steel City 35610, current Steel City 35925, and 35930 (nearly identical to the 22116) ....all quite well received, with the biggest gripe being complaints about a specific two-piece rail used on the fence of some, but not all of those hybrids…the Deluxe and Industrial fences are very well regarded. I wouldn't let ignorant views of a name plate stop me from buying a good saw at a good price if you can find one, but it's worth noting that the Craftsman 21833 is made by Dayton, not Steel City/Orion, and is a completely different saw (it's essentially the same saw as the current Ridgid R4512) ....bottom line, buy the tool, not the name tag.

FWIW, in spite of some reports of alignment problems with the G0715P, there are many happy owners of that saw. Issues with a few don't necessarily correlate to issues with all, and Grizzly has a good reputation of solving future issues that arise. I'd also consider their G0661 hybrid style contractor saw.

Since you've got 220v available, I'd definitely give a lot of consideration to the option of stepping up to a full 3hp cabinet saw like the Grizzly G1023RL, G1023RLW, G0690, or a Shop Fox W1819. To stay within budget, you may even find a nice deal on a used cabinet saw like an older G1023SL, Shop Fox, Unisaw, PM66, Jet, GI, General 350/650, etc.

Since a pic is worth a thousand words, here's a pic of the guts of a typical hybrid, vs the guts of a typical industrial grade cabinet saw. There's a lot more to the differences than just horsepower…

The desirable features of just about any table saw are good power, smooth operation, stability, ease of alignment, ability to hold alignment, reliability, operating space, accurate fence, good dust collection, availability of accessories. Blade selection and alignment are huge factors in how well any saw performs.




Good luck and please keep us posted.
 
#14 ·
Thanks Guys for your input. Wow it's like drinking from a firehose! There's a lot to consider. Your advise to look for used saws, especially contractor saws is good. Do you have any Make & Models to look out for. I've focused all my research so far on Hybrids, so now that I want to look at Contractors, I need your recommendations on what units to investigate and those to stay away from.
Thanks for your help.
Michigander
ps I am in SE Michigan so my market area can include Toledo, Detroit to Lansing
 
#22 ·
Hi Michigander,
I was new when I bought my first table saw, and here it is a year later and I'm considering buying a different saw because I didn't know what I was looking for.

A few things I would recomend to consider for a saw:
1.) Make sure the saw stupports the standard oval/pill shaped insert so you can fairly easily create or buy a zero clearance insert. It will greatly improve the quality of your cuts and some saws, are difficult if not almost impossible to set up a zero clearance insert on. (Lower end contractor saws are guilty of this)

2.) Riving Knife, I wouldn't consider getting a saw without one these days. Also take a look at blade guard, riving knife change out conveinence, the longer it takes to change these items out, the less likely you'll use them. Some have a quick snap lever, others have a small knob you can unscrew, others require a wrench (like mine) that you're always misplacing.

3.) Fence, you can always upgrade your fence later if you want, a bad fence will flex and cause the cuts to not be straight a good fence however will make it a dream to work with the saw. I'd read reviews or if possible actually see the saw in person and get a feel for the fence.

If you have 220v in your place already, I agree with everyone above, try and get a 3HP cabinet saw, it will be the last one you ever buy and it will do everything you ever wanted. 110v are usually 1.5 or 1.75 HP saws, getting through thicker materials or denser materials can require some tricks. Mine is 110v, and I'm a fan of purple heart but because my saw is only 1.5hp I don't have a lot of luck getting 3/4'' purple heart through the blade without burning. I could get a thin kerf rip blade, but I'd then need a thin kerf splitter, or I do extra tricks to get a non burn cut. I usually cut the piece slightly oversize, then do a skim cut which clears off the burning. But it would be nice if I didn't have to worry about these extra steps.

4.) Consider Saw Stop, I don't plan to bring up the should I or shouldn't I discussion. It is your personal choice they are very crazy expensive, but the last thing you want is to buy an expensive table saw, and a year later wish you had a different one because the saw you have doesn't have a feature you want. And that feature could include the flesh detection technology of the sawstop (or any of the features I listed above)

I know I didn't really give you any brands, I'm just giving you some things to consider that I didn't when I purchased my first saw.

-jeremy
 
#24 ·
John, I was a carpenter/woodworker for 15 years. In that time I bought quality tools as I needed them. Now that woodworking is a hobby, I'm an opportunistic buyer. When I find a good deal on something I would like or will use, I buy it. I don't disagree with anything said above, but from where I sit, a few features can be over looked for a few hours on a few weekends when your talking a large sum of money.

I bought the grizzly when i found it, and I still have no regrets about buying my $60 craftsman. I used it for 3 years and if I hadn't found the grizzly, i'd still be using it.

This is just my opinion, and I understand the point of those that disagree, but I'd rather have a $300 saw with fewer features and $600 worth of lumber, and woodworking to do, then a $1200 saw and can't afford lumber. That's just another 2 cents worth.
 
#25 ·
Don't you have two friends to help you move the saw into the basement and save $100. A couple of 6-packs would be all it would cost. I agree with the others on getting a 3hp cabinet saw either new or used. As more and more tools are being made in China, the older the saw is, the better the chances that it was made in a country other than China; Taiwan or USA for example. I personally would rather buy an older machine, even if I had to replace parts than buy one from China. I'm certain quality issues with China will be resolved someday, but I don't think we are there yet. In relation to cost, I would expect a $2000 Chinese saw to compare favorably with saws selling for $2400, but I would never expect it from a $1000 Chinese saw.
 
#26 ·
I would talk to customer service at Grizzly and voice your concerns ask them what they will do if you have a problem if you buy a table saw with a problem. If they assure you they will fix the problem right away get the name of the person you talked to then you can make sure they will do what the promise. I own a number of grizzly tools and have had good luck with the tools and customer service ,but of late I have heard some stories on LJs that makes me wonder if the customer service is not what it use to be.
As to a contractor saw I have had many students say their Ridgid's are great. As others have stated in todays market you my be able to find a good used cabinet saw for close to the same money. I have seen a good number of powermatic 66s
for sale and their great saws.
 
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