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Forum topic by Absinthe posted 10-11-2011 04:09 PM 1626 views 1 time favorited 8 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Absinthe

84 posts in 1994 days


10-11-2011 04:09 PM

I am in the design phase of a project. I want to make a “drum carder”. This is a device that prepares wool or other fiber for spinning or felting.

The design is pretty straight forward, a few examples are:
http://www.ashford.co.nz/newsite/pdfs_assembly_guides/ADCFADCC_web_74.pdf
http://www.howardbrush.com/drumcards.html
http://brotherdrumcarder.com/drum_carder_1.html
http://www.fancy-kitty.com/carders1.html

As you can see they are essentially the same machine with very little difference one to another. I am sure this design goes way back to fiber Jennys or the Cotton Gin and so forth.

The large drum in the photo is called a swift and can easily enough be made from 2 wood plugs and an 8” sonotube. No sweat, the small one is 2.5” OD and I have no problem coming up with that. Where I am running into an issue is the best way to fix a shaft.

These seem to be traditionally made with wood pulleys but I am not opposed to AL ones if need be. What I am concerned with is how to attach the drums to the shafts, and the best way to bear the shaft in the box. Here is my big quest, I want to be able to replace the drums. And relatively easily if possible. I have considered some kind of pin arrangement like one of them in the sample.

The reason for this is that in use, you have different pitch of “card clothing” for different materials.

I have considered a few different things, but figure maybe other heads will be clearer. Besides, the metal parts that are available are outside of my current knowledge. I am sure someone will say “Just get a 3/16 Blurf and you’re all set!!”

-- Absinthe


8 replies so far

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Lee Barker

2170 posts in 2313 days


#1 posted 10-11-2011 05:12 PM

Hi Absinthe—

Thanks for the challenging question. Seeing these carders, I now understand the inspiration for the Mimeograph machine : ).

For a bearing, I would use bronze bushings, the flanged kind.

It looks like the Brother and the Kitty have the removable drum question solved. The only other way I could think of would be to remove a side, but that means trying to reassemble it with three axles wagging at you.

MSC Industrial would be your source I would think.

There’s also a cool site called “smallparts” and it might be of some help.

As for attaching the axles to the drums, you just need a hub with a flange. Google “flange hub” images and you’re on your way…

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

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Absinthe

84 posts in 1994 days


#2 posted 10-11-2011 05:38 PM

Hiya Lee—

I am glad you enjoyed the challenge of it! The flange hub seems like a reasonable start though I am not sure I follow how the shafting and such interacts.

Bear with me for a moment and let’s see if I understand what is going on. Let’s assume I select a piece of drill rod to use as a shaft. At one end I need to attach a handle, so I will have to cut threads to hold it on, and theoretically flatten one or two sides of the threaded area to give the handle something to have leverage with. Then I build the drum as I described and get a hub flange or two and run the rod through one hub, the drum and the opposite side of the drum and then the other flange. For simplicity sake let’s say I drop it into a bronze flange bushing or pillow block on the far side and attach a pulley there. On the handle side I slide on another bronze bushing buried in that side or a pillow block (whichever is easier) and put on the handle and nut to hold it in place.

I see how the hub flange attaches to the drum, but I don’t see how it secures to the shafting.

Is drill rod what I want for the shafting, or is there something specific that is better? I assume there is not a way to use all-thread that would make any sense or is there?

-- Absinthe

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Lee Barker

2170 posts in 2313 days


#3 posted 10-11-2011 10:35 PM

Hi Absinthe—

I think that’s how I would proceed. Do you want the least possible friction on these moving parts? I don’t know how long one might crank on that.

If you wanted ball bearings, that would be fairly easy too. You just freeze the shaft and warm the bearings and slide ‘em on.

Drill rod might be a bit more than you need. What about the steel rod stock you see in the hardware store?

As for the hubs attaching to the shaft, I would think tension pins—just one actually—would be the ticket.

Hm. Just reread your summary.

Why not allthread, and the parts that intersect with the bearing are sleeved? That would sure make the shaft to drum attachment simpler. Washers and nuts, with one big washer with a couple holes drilled into it through which you would screw it to the drum.

Another bearing idea, duh, would be UHMW. You can machine it all yourself with your wood tools. Do you have a plastics place nearby where you could get some blocks?

I might have some in my various stashes.

In case you didn’t gather it, I love this kind of thing—mixing hardware and wood.

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

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Absinthe

84 posts in 1994 days


#4 posted 10-12-2011 03:25 AM

The way it works is when you turn the crank it turns the large wheel (swift) which is ratioed about 6:1 to the small one (licker). It pulls the fiber in and around itself as the swift turns in teh opposite direction pulling the cleaned fiber off in an orderly well aligned manner to make what is called a bat. When the sqift is full of fiber, there is a section with no teeth that you slide a doffing tool into and pull it all up in one big layer. It is then ready to spin either by hand or on a wheel etc..

If you have a whole fleece to card (that is the name of the process) it may take you several hours. Of course the alternative is to use hand cards (look like giant dog slicker brushes) to transfer the fiber back and forth several times before gently rolling it off in to what is called a rolag.

It would appear that most spinners, and fiber artists in general are women. So there is no pride in having a machine that is hard to use. The more of the effort that effects the cleaning of the wool, and the less of it generating body heat and large bicepts the better :)

I considered UHMW but don’t have any, and nor have I ever worked any of it before.

I took a walk through Lowes tonight and saw a few things. They had axle bolts which had a smooth shaft an amount of threading at the end. Kind of reminds me of a wood screw (as opposed to a sheet metal screw) in bolt form. I also found bronze bushings that the smooth part would fit into. It did not fit as snugly as I imagined so I assume that is not how the game is played. I did not try them on a piece of smooth rod, but I would suspect that would be a better fit. I though I could sink the bolt heads and epoxy them in place. Then burry the bronze bearing in the sides and the exposed axle bolt could go into them, leaving the threading outside the bushing to be attached to by either a pully or handle on either side. If I could maintain the correct parallels and perpendiculars I would think it should work ok. I assume I could gang drill the sides and the drum caps in pairs to assure the holes line up. Then just epoxy in the bushing and axle bolts…? Am I getting close to a good idea?

On your suggestion of all-thread, I like it but didn’t think it would bear well. Can you explain how the sleeving process works or what is it I am looking for to sleeve it? Is it something that threads on or just slides over?

Am I undersanding correctly that I would attach a nut to the drum on each side and thread the all-thread through it and then somehow chumnut it on each side? Or drill a hole and use a castle nut and cotter pin type thing.

You can see in the one design they have a slot cut into the drum cap and a hole and either roll pin or other long registration pin to apply the turning torque to the drum.

It is just good to have an open discussion on this, the more I think about it, the more ideas I come up with. I wonder, why it couldn’t all be wood. Hardwood down riding in a waxed hardwood receiver. I assume since I have never seen it done, there is a reason people aren’t doing it.

-- Absinthe

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rance

4245 posts in 2623 days


#5 posted 10-12-2011 03:46 AM

FYI, the 3/4” shaft a friend of mine got from Lowes the other day wasn’t even close to fitting a 3/4” pillow bearing block. We opted for a piece from McMaster Carr. I rather like the idea of allthread from HD. At your low speeds, this should work well. Maybe attach a metal dog to the threaded rod to drive the big drum.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

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Absinthe

84 posts in 1994 days


#6 posted 10-12-2011 03:59 AM

So now I get to show my ignorance again, what is a dog?

-- Absinthe

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rance

4245 posts in 2623 days


#7 posted 10-12-2011 04:08 AM

Imagine a flat, closed end wrench. Slip the end of the wrench over the shaft with a nut on each side and cinch it up tight. Then screw the other end to the end face of your drum(which was slipped over the shaft. Make sense? If not, google for “lathe dog”.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

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Absinthe

84 posts in 1994 days


#8 posted 10-12-2011 05:44 PM

I just ordered a bunch of flanged bronze bushings. That will give me something to play with so I can figure out whether smooth rod, allthread or axle bolts will be best to use.

-- Absinthe

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