LumberJocks

A new saw stopping device!

  • Advertise with us

« back to Safety in the Woodworking Shop forum

Forum topic by Dick, & Barb Cain posted 1027 days ago 1364 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 2904 days


1027 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: resource saw safety tablesaw bandsaw dick

This is a new patent pending device that looks very interesting.

Check this out.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1


27 replies so far

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1673 days


#1 posted 1027 days ago

Interesting, but not available yet. The site is only offering licenses under a pending patent(s). Since the Sawstop inventor is (was?) a patent attorney, there will probably be a lengthy battle over these patents.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 2904 days


#2 posted 1027 days ago

One thing I like about this, is you don’t have to replace the brake mechanism every time it activates.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

View Bob Kollman's profile

Bob Kollman

1796 posts in 1795 days


#3 posted 1027 days ago

Yep, this one has been around for about a year that I know of, I did a thred on it, Patron, did a thread on it.
Seems that there should be more interest than there is. This might never make it out of the guys garage, or maybe something will hit the market in a year or two, or three.

-- Bob Kenosha Wi.

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11639 posts in 2292 days


#4 posted 1027 days ago

This has been around for awhile , but thanks for the update : ) Hopefully he can get it to market soon !

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View Arminius's profile

Arminius

304 posts in 2408 days


#5 posted 1027 days ago

The basic problem with this design is that it is integrated into the guard. But a tremendous number of accidents, including the controversial Ryobi one, happen with saws where the guard has been removed.

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5418 posts in 2033 days


#6 posted 1027 days ago

I know a few dummies that have removed the brake system from their Saw Stop, too. Or never replaced it after the first activation on wet wood.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 2904 days


#7 posted 1027 days ago

I’m sorry if this has been around awhile, but it doesn’t hurt to know what’s up, & coming.

Some LJs like me may not have seen this before.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

View crank49's profile

crank49

3343 posts in 1575 days


#8 posted 1027 days ago

This device, in my opinion, is waiting on some guidance from the Consumer Products Safety Comission. They won’t spend a pile of money to introduce something to find out it will not meet the requirements of the coming regulations.

This thing stops a spinning blade in about an 1/8th of a second. That’s about 7 or 8 revolutions of the blade. It can’t be activated by blade contact because it’s too slow to prevent a significant injury at that point of detection.

As soon as the CPSC gets its input from the public, and get’s its kick backs and perks all lined up from lobbiest and special interest groups, it will make a rulling and then manufacturers will know how to move forward.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1673 days


#9 posted 1027 days ago

I also wonder if this gadget can even get off of the ground. The sawstop guy is a patent attorney and you can bet the ranch that his patent application was written as broadly as possible. That may prevent any other device triggered by a blade contacting flesh from getting a patent.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View bunkie's profile

bunkie

411 posts in 1751 days


#10 posted 1027 days ago

I’m not sure that SawStop’s patent would apply here. First, Sawstop uses capacitance to sense contact whereas this appears to be either infrared or optical from what I can see. patents cover specific methods, not general principles. Second, the Sawstop uses a physical blade brake where this appears to stop the motor electrically. Again, the goal is the same, but the method is different.

My big issue with this is that on a table saw, you are likely to have at least have a blade revolution. I’m sure that they cover that by having the sensor stop the blade before contact is made (they have a non-contact sensor), but this might not give enough time for the sort of accident that comes from hands being pulled violently into the blade path as can happen with some kickback incidents.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2345 posts in 1565 days


#11 posted 1027 days ago

If you can show that your patent is significantly different than another, you can get a patent issued. Or wait until the patent runs out.

View daltxguy's profile

daltxguy

1373 posts in 2518 days


#12 posted 1027 days ago

This device is sufficiently different to saw stop that it’s doubtful it could be challenged.
Of course the real issue here is that everyone want to make money off of personal safety. The design here doesn’t look too complex, it merely senses when the figures are too close to the blade, not touching it. If you really want to revolutionize safety, then open source the design and have everyone start making their own or have competitors coming in to improve it. Otherwise we will stagnate discussing saw stop for decades with lawyers and regulators while safety is being ignored.

-- If you can't joint it, bead it!

View crank49's profile

crank49

3343 posts in 1575 days


#13 posted 1027 days ago

Saw Stop redirects energy. By grabbing and holding the edge of the spinning blade, the energy is redirected to snatching the blade below the table. It doesn’t have to stop the mass of the spinning motor either, because the arbor can still spin a little, even with the blade stopped. A brilliant idea. A patented idea. As I said before, nothing else can work like this, and nothing else will work as well.

Before the Whirlwind could stop the blade as fast as the Saw Stop it has to also stop the spinning mass of the motor. It actually uses the motor as the brake. That motor mass is huge compared to the blade. I suspect they have gotten all the stopping ability they can get without twisting the arbor off and are just waiting to see if 7 revolution of the blade will meet the requirements of the coming regulations.

Bunkie said, “you are likely to have at least have a blade revolution”. No, you are going to have 7 or 8 blade revolutions based on the numbers claimed by Whirlwind themselves..

Nobody is going to do anything until the regulation is defined. One reason other companies would not adopt the SawStop technology when it was offered to them was the liability issue. How could you sell an inexpensive jobsite saw besides a very expensive cabinet saw with a safety brake and not get sued for offering the inexpensive saw without a brake. You have already admitted the price of the brake is too expensive to include on the cheap saw. You are putting cost above safety. If you redesigned the jobsite saw to have a SawStop brake module it might have to sell for $1000. Then you just put yourself out of the market for job site saws where you would have to compete with $100 saws.

No. The regulation has to come first. Then engineers and marketers and lawyers will have to do their thing before the free market can iron it all out.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Grumpy's profile

Grumpy

19326 posts in 2455 days


#14 posted 1026 days ago

Good one, thanks Dick.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

View Tony's profile

Tony

978 posts in 2635 days


#15 posted 1026 days ago

I have been watching this product for quite some time with great interest – I am looking at outfitting it on my Delta TS & a new TBD Panel saw – its a great product, and hopefully overcomes the problem of cutting Green wood, that the SawStop has

Thanks for posting this

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

showing 1 through 15 of 27 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase