Little Brass Screws

I read somewhere that when fitting the hinges, you should use regular screws. Once you’ve driven in (and then removed) the regular screws, only then do you do the brass screws. (P.S. I guess you want a regular screw with a similar thread pattern/count to your brass ones.)

Alternatively, how do you think it would work to put a countersink bit right there in the middle of the screw head, just to hollow that area out? It might look a bit decorative with a concave center (or might look horrible), and you wouldn’t see any damage to the screw head. I would definitely test that one out before trying it myself, of course.

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

Can you get regular screws that small?

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

As far as I know! (but what do I know?)

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

When using brass screws you always want to drive regular stell screws in before you insert the brass ones.
I usually don’t even touch the brass one until I’m already done with the project.

I have learned that the hard way by snapping the heads off of brass screws.

So Eric is correct, and you can find screws that small. I will usually buy them at the same time I buy the hinges if I know I will need them.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I too have learned that the hard way. Steel first always, and even then I wax the threads, and put blue masking tape over the hinge leaves during the first drive in. Trying to do surgery to dig out a broken screw never goes too well. And most screw extractor systems don’t start below size 6 screws. I finally made one of those saw tooth tube coring devices to dig out the laggard, then plugged before re-drilling.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Thanks guys. I’m going to work on getting those out and starting over on them. This box was a rescue off my shop shelf——has been sitting there almost two years languishing – I finally felt guilty and decided I needed to do something with it.

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

Jeez, Betsy. I got so wrapped up in the technical question that I forgot to mention anything about the quite handsome box you’ve got going there. I hope to see a project post soon.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Betsy, these LJ’s got it right but I also buy a whole mess of the brass screws just in case. The hinges on that real nice walnut box should just take a few new screws to make in look great. The threads are already made just use something to lube the screws.

-- bobdurnell, Santa Ana California.

If you can still find one, you could use a “dibbler” I have one & it really makes any small screw go in much easier. So—-what the heck is a dibbler?? It looks like an awl with threads. Stick it in the pilot hole and twist it in by hand. It has more taper than an actual screw so you can stop at the appropriate depth for the screw you are using. That said, if the wood you are using is hard, you should still drive and remove a steel screw before driving in the brass.

-- http://www.grandprairiewoodworks.com

Tim;s got it, a gimlet. If you could find a Vix bit small enough it would help a lot. Other wise some form of awl to start the hole and then make threads with a steel screw and a hand screw driver.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I knew you guys would have the solutions. Thanks. I’m going to get some steel screws and try again.

Doug—- thanks for noticing the box!

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

You have gotten very solid advice – in the meantime VERY nice boxes! Great job.

-- Bill - - Ad-Marketing Guy, Ramsey NJ

I got one brass screw too loose after driving in a steel screw, so I put a drop of CA glue in the bore to lock it in.

I think the box looks terrific Betsy!

ya i saw something in FWW that said to drive regular screws of the same size in first. then remove them and add the real screws. by the way, wonderful box!

-- if you haven't already check out my blog http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/teenagewoodworker/blog/3961

just a note to save some aggrevation here! get the steel screws from a good vender like mcfeeleys or your local fastener supply co. the screws from the borg are generally trash! especially in these small sizes. I have found half of them to have defective heads and at least 1/4 of them either strip the phillips head out or break off before you get them in. nothing worse than finding out the steel screws you bought to pre install the hinges are no better than the brass screws that came with them! :-]

-- hey honey! watch this!

Betsy, skeezics is right, quality brass hardware will make a word of difference. But regardless of the quality, here are some tips:

• With almost any screw, the size of the hole should be the same as the shaft of the screw (not including the threads) in softwood and it should be about half way between the shaft and the overall diameter including the threads for hardwoods.

• Wax the screw before inserting it. It is much less likely to strip. Keep a small candle in your tool box for this purpose, or another thing that works great is a stick of Chapstick. Just drag the threads through the wax before inserting it into the hole.

• Make sure you have the right size screwdriver. Don’t use one that is too small. Only hand screw them in and go very slowly and carefully.

Good luck!

-- Dust collectors suck.

What Blake said about the wax is good. A bar of soap works just as well, and if you’re in a tight spot where
you don’t have access to either, just spit on the screw. No kidding, it works and it’s always handy.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Thanks guys. I’ve put this project aside until I can get better screws. These are a lot of good tips.

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

Hi Betsy,

Thought that I would add my 2 cents.

I agree with the guys on the ” steel screws first ”, also on the pre-threading dibber.
I also use one of a set of [scews] that make a spiral hole = to the wire diameter, plus bees wax on every screw that I drive, power or not.
I keep boxes of screws from # 4 up, which usually fills any requirements that I come up against.
Again, take the advice given , and buy your screws from a quality source, not from the big box stores.

Some problems occur when the wrong driver is chosen.
A Reed and Prince driver looks an awful lot like a Phillips, but it has a slightly sharper angle, which will tear out the head of a phillips in short time.
This may sound silly, but watch the wear on your divers and replace anything suspect, a worn driver will tear out a head before you are aware that it is happening.

Norm.

[ wre your heart is, there is your treasure also ]

Screw the screws.
How’s your health?

Lee

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

I use a hex head driver in a drill. Then redo with the brass. I guess we’re all trying to say do what he said.

-- ??? My mistakes heat the house. It's very warm in here. ???

Betsy,

Try a set of Vix bits. They’re self centering spring loaded drill bits. The bit is housed in a cylinder that has a slightly conical bottom. The conical bottom fits the hole in the hinge, centering the hole you drill. Then follow the advice here about waxing the screws before driving them.

Garret Wade has a set of 3 different sizes of Vix bits for about $18.00 Here’s the link to the page of their online catalog (or you can just Google Vix Drill Bits)

http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?itemID=105372&itemType=PRODUCT

I’ve been using these bits to drill holes for hinges for years and think they work very well.

-- Gerry

Norm—I’ve not heard of Reed and Prince drivers. I’ll have to look into them. All I have are your standard Phillips head and I do have a jewelers set that my Dad gave me years and years ago, but they are hard to use.

Gerry – I’ve got the Vix bits and they work great to start the hole. It’s just those darn screws. I’m going to get some good quality screws and try again.

Lee – thanks for asking about my health. It’s getting better and I’m in the shop more. I’m having to modify how I do somethings but I’m getting there. Building up stamina and not pushing is the big thing. But I’ll get there. Thanks for asking.

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

Hi Betsy,

Reed & Prince is a fastener mfg. co. that started up in the late 1800’s in Worcester, Ma. , but are now located in Leominster, Ma.

I have a feeling that they predated Phillips type fasteners.

They also produced drivers to go along with their line, and they are easy to confuse with Phillips.

Some areas of the country may have never heard of them, even though they produce a quality product. That would be especially true of Home Depot and Lowes type operations, but not to discount many lumber yards and hardware suppliers.
Many only understand CHINESE today.

I think that we get spoiled in having a choice , rather than what is pushed on us, as take it or leave it, that we see so much of today.

Coming from Ma. to Nc. I have found many things to be regional in nature, and I have a time trying to locate certain items. I do not know if it is the same all over the country.

If you have never heard of them and do not live in the Eastern part of the country, then chances are that their drivers or screws are not the problem.

I do not run into this problem because the work that I do dictates that I use slotted head screws.
I toss any phillips that are shipped with a piece of hardware and install the slotted heads, to conform with period design, or even when producing a new copy, etc.

Otherwise I follow along with the advice that you have already been given.

I hope this has been helpful.

Norm.

[ where the heart is, there is your treasure also. ]

thanks Norm. There is a definite regional flavor to everything. pop… soda… bag…sack…etc. Thanks for the driver information.

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

With MrWoody’s advise – I’ve ordered some gimlets from LeeValley. Once I get them maybe I can get this project back on the front burner.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

-- Betsy - There is no strength where there is no struggle

Here is a picture of a gimlet – the widipedia article is located at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimlet_(tool)

I just inserted some very small brass screws in the box I uploaded to projects. I used a No. 0 phillips screwdriver but before I tried to screw them in, I used an awl to prepare the hole. If I had steel screws the same size, I would have used those first, as well, to cut the threads.

LeeValley has a set of 7 gimlets (#2 – #9) for $12.50 on their website.

Jim