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Forum topic by TopamaxSurvivor posted 09-19-2011 09:19 PM 1097 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3137 days


09-19-2011 09:19 PM

Topic tags/keywords: founders daily quote madison

“[T]here is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust.”—James Madison

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence


17 replies so far

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pierce85

508 posts in 2023 days


#1 posted 09-20-2011 06:59 AM

Hmmm, Madison’s point within context is actually quite a bit different. Madison is responding to fears that the size of the House of Representatives will be too small, thus leaving open the possibility of corruption and eroded public liberties as a result. Madison in fact is arguing against the idea that circumspection and distrust is the way to go with regard to this issue (you can read the entire piece here – http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa55.htm).

Here is Madison’s quote more fully stated:

As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust, so there are other qualities in human nature which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form. Were the pictures which have been drawn by the political jealousy of some among us faithful likenesses of the human character, the inference would be, that there is not sufficient virtue among men for self-government; and that nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another.

By the way, I’m not sure I would agree with Madison…

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3137 days


#2 posted 09-20-2011 07:22 AM

The policies of the last 30 years seem to have unleashed a fathomless level of greed that was certainly unknown in the agrarian world of my youth. I sometimes wonder if those “chains of despotism” will be required to re-civilize those who are trying to get the last 2% of US assets held by the bottom half of our citizens.

Looking at world history, and certainly the current situation, gives a lot of credibility to the archeological evidence and theory Homo sapiens, with their capacity for unnecessary violence, destroyed the Neanderthals who lived in communes working for the good of the whole.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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pierce85

508 posts in 2023 days


#3 posted 09-20-2011 07:34 AM

When it comes to “human nature” I lean heavily toward the Hobbsian perspective. It’s also why I love H.L. Mencken and think he was one of the most astute observers of American culture – he makes Tocqueville look like a rank amateur. ;-)

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doordude

1085 posts in 2444 days


#4 posted 09-20-2011 07:56 AM

interesting topic. left unfettered, a certain amount of men will succome to greed, in what ever era, or destroy a band of neanderthals, or a certain tribe of people, or color, race, or religeon, untill the ONE comes, and takes back whats his. untill then good men must take a stand.

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3137 days


#5 posted 09-20-2011 08:51 AM

There is little doubt the founders were a unique group of selfless visionaries whose existence and accomplishments almost deny any probability of existence.

My son made an interesting observation a few days ago. He is 39 and works in the high tech world. He mentioned thinking all adults were capable and responsible like his mother and I when he was growing up. He has been rudely awakened to reality and has little hope of ever seeing a world the way he thought it existed. I had never really thought about it, but I thought the same thing when I was growing up. That is a perspective that can carry a very high price. Especially when you trust doctors or financial institutions.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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David Grimes

2078 posts in 2101 days


#6 posted 09-20-2011 09:15 AM

...not just destroyed the Neanderthals, but more likely killed their men and bred their women. They have determined that neanderthal : homo sapiens in-breeding did occur and so they were actually not destroyed as much as incorporated. Once you try Neanderthal, you never go back. ;=)

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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Roger

19867 posts in 2265 days


#7 posted 09-20-2011 03:00 PM

I don’t know about anyone else, but, I’ll be ready for the Zombie Apocalypse..

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Keep your dust collector fed. Kentuk55@yahoo.com

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pierce85

508 posts in 2023 days


#8 posted 09-20-2011 04:42 PM

Good point Roger, but I’m putting my hopes on the return of Keanu Reeves as doordude suggests.

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3137 days


#9 posted 09-20-2011 10:05 PM

A few good men took a stand in Beaverhead County, MT in the 1860s. They hung a scumbag every week for about 6 or 8 weeks. Their civilizing efforts still stand today. If we could find a few good men to march on Wall Street, we could take America back for the salt of the earth types that built it for the raiders pillage ;-((

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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David Grimes

2078 posts in 2101 days


#10 posted 09-20-2011 11:45 PM

There’s an easier way, Topa. Just turn a pack of voraciously hungry crap-eating dogs loose. ;=)

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3137 days


#11 posted 09-20-2011 11:59 PM

But not quite as much fun ;-))

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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doordude

1085 posts in 2444 days


#12 posted 09-21-2011 06:39 AM

pierce85 YES,Neo can make the difference. remember if you get taken into the special room… the blue pill or the red pill,which?

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pierce85

508 posts in 2023 days


#13 posted 09-21-2011 08:50 AM

Well, in my case, it’s usually the pills first and then the special room. I sometimes get a nice, snug jacket too.

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2154 days


#14 posted 09-22-2011 04:19 PM

Not all doctors are bad. Not all lawyers are bad. Seeing as how this is the internet, you have no way of knowing whether or not I had two fingers crossed behind my back when I made the second statement;)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Manitario

2397 posts in 2344 days


#15 posted 09-22-2011 04:33 PM

the Neanderthal comments distracted me from making any meaningful contribution to this thread….mmmm….sexy, sexy neanderthal women….”hey baby, check out these stone tools…”
sorry.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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