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Saw blades 10" V 8"

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Forum topic by bluekingfisher posted 09-09-2011 10:02 AM 933 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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bluekingfisher

1107 posts in 1732 days


09-09-2011 10:02 AM

Quick question fellahs – Having recently completed a project with phenolic faced MDF (22mm)I used the most suitable blade in my collection to reduce the chipping to the edges of the laminate face.

The blade as it turned out made a chip free cut everytime. It is one of two 8” blades I own (both of which were included in a job lot) and got me thinking do I really need a 10” blade on my T/S most of the time?

Of course there is the obvious disadvantage of overall cutting height but as I rarely cut material over 2 1/2” thick why have the larger blade? On the odd occasion I do need a deeper cut why not just switch to my 10” blades for that extra inch of cut.

My thinking is the smaller blade should cut through material more easily as there is less metal to spin therefore less power required?? less deflection on the smaller blade?? thinner kerf line and of course they are quite a bit cheaper to buy.

I have a 3HP motor on the saw so no problems with the bigger blade but just because the maximum size of blade for the saw is 10” do we actually need to use it?? or is it a macho thing with us blokes – bigger being better??? -;)

If anyone has technical knowledge on the advantages/disadvantages of the two different blade sizes or good or bad experiences between the two I would like to hear more. From what I have seen in terms of results with mine I’ll probably buy 8” blades when I need a new one in the future.

Thanks in advance.

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan


14 replies so far

View higtron's profile

higtron

200 posts in 1430 days


#1 posted 09-09-2011 03:21 PM

I use a 7 14” skill saw blade in my tablesaw whenever I’m cutting constuction grade lumber they work like a dream. Can’t remember if was here or at the wood whisperer forum but there was a thread on this subject a month or so ago. Anyway they won’t do any harm to your saw.

-- If I cut it too short I can scab a piece on, but if it's too long what do I do?

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DurocShark

62 posts in 1523 days


#2 posted 09-09-2011 03:26 PM

Smaller blade will spin a smidge slower, but not so’s you’d notice.

I use smaller blades all the time. My previous saw was a 9” Rockwell, so I have a bunch of 8” and 9” blades still. Circ saw blades get used too. I use them to cut brass, aluminum, or plastic. Protects my more expensive larger blades.

-- -Don

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bluekingfisher

1107 posts in 1732 days


#3 posted 09-09-2011 03:52 PM

Thanks for the come back on the thread fellahs.

Since posting I read an article on the net about the smaller blade spinning slower as you say but the torque will be greater?? meaning more efficient cutting.

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View DurocShark's profile

DurocShark

62 posts in 1523 days


#4 posted 09-09-2011 03:57 PM

Personally, I would think that if torque is a factor, you’re feeding too fast and beating the wood into submission.

-- -Don

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1911 days


#5 posted 09-09-2011 04:03 PM

Certainly, you can use it on occasion. However, I wouldn’t gain too much comfort in it being easier to spin than a 10” blade. I know that my 3hp TS wouldn’t think twice about it.

I think there are three reasons a larger blade is better. First, the larger the diameter of the blade, the faster the cutting teeth will be moving through the wood. In fact, an 8” blade would moving at only 80% the speed of a 10” blade at the cutting edge. A 6” blade would be moving at 75% speed of an 8” blade. A 6” blade would be moving at 60% speed of a 10” blade. You get the idea.

Second, run-out (wobble) will likely be a larger factor with smaller blades because they are, in fact, smaller and thinner. This is especially true when pushing smaller blades through some hardwood. Again, the motor doesn’t care what blade is on it…so when the blade encounters resistance, the energy build-up either goes into the wood OR back into the blade (usually in the form of lateral movement/flexure). And because the smaller blade is at a speed handicap already, then you will encounter more resistance for a given cut.

In other words, when I used a knife or handsaw growing up, my Dad would always say, “Let the tool do the work.” Sure enough, you always get better cuts when you move the teeth through the wood, not trying to do it solely with brute force. I think the same thing applies here. Torque doesn’t matter if it can’t produce energy at the tip of the blade…and, IMO, I think the larger blade is more capable in that regard.

Third, saw blade designers go through a LOT of research to optimize their products for a given saw, including kerf designs, tooth angles/bevels, etc…none of which I’m as qualities as Knotscott to comment on. So, you should probably expect the best performance on a 10” table saw to be delivered by a 10” blade.

But for certain applications, I have no problem going with a small blade, though I seldom do that personally. That’s why I have so many different 10” blades!

My $.02!

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3613 posts in 1947 days


#6 posted 09-09-2011 05:31 PM

Hey pal,

I can find no fault in using an 8” blade on your saw..I’ve used a 7 1/4” a few times on my old 3 .hp. Craftsman, and on my 5 h.p. Unisaw. I don’t have one, but I might suggest using a blade stabilizer on the 8”, just to see if it helps with run-out. I think it would work good also on a 10” blade…..depending on the blade, of course. I’ve even ran a 6” and 8” dado blade on mine before with no problem…only when I had sent my blades out for re-sharpening, and was out of regular saw blades…lol. When times get tough, you’ve got to get tough with them…...Go for it, pal, and see how it works…...I think you’ll be surprized…....

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View Loren's profile

Loren

7826 posts in 2400 days


#7 posted 09-09-2011 05:37 PM

There are reasons to use undersized blades in furnituremaking, but for
general usage, I’d say stick with the blade size your saw is designed for.

Now a lot of sliders are designed to take 300mm blades, which is about
12” and the Euro saws tend to run fast anyway. This may have to do
with 50 vs 60 cycle power. It’s a minor issue really, but if I put a 10”
blade on my slider I get a slower rim speed, which might be a good
thing sometimes, because that saw runs faster than a common 10”
cabinet saw. I think some of the European saws may run at closer
to 7000 rpm (top pf head figures – I could be way off).

Now American and Asian 10” saws made for the American market are made
to run at 60 cycles and at… maybe 5400 rpm. The 10” blades, especially
the higher-quality ones, are optimized in design and manufacture to
produce the best balance between cut quality, speed and durability at
this general speed range.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#8 posted 09-09-2011 05:55 PM

It’s already been established that there’s no harm in using an 8” instead of 10” if it fits, and many smaller blades can cost less. Which will perform best will depend on largely on the particulars of each blade, as Cosmicsniper mentioned….if you happened to find an 8” and 10” blade with otherwise identical parameters and adequate kerf width, I’d guess the 10” would leave a better edge given sufficient saw power, but I haven’t done the comparison. In general, I agree with CS, and think the larger blades tend to get the lion’s share of the engineering and quality attention, in part because those blades command a higher price tag.

I’ve got a variety of blade diameters in my shop…the only reasons I’d choose one of the smaller diameters for a 3hp 10” saw is if one of the smaller blades offered a specialty parameter that my 10” blade didn’t have (metal cutting, ply, etc), or if I was concerned about damaging my more expensive 10” blades. No doubt there are also situations where some saws struggle with a larger blade and have an easier time spinning a smaller blade.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

15088 posts in 2428 days


#9 posted 09-09-2011 08:04 PM

Loren Your 50 cycle saw is definitely running about 15% faster on 60 cycles.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Paul M Cohen's profile

Paul M Cohen

83 posts in 2530 days


#10 posted 09-09-2011 10:56 PM

The biggest thing to worry about is your riving knife will not be aligned to the top of the blade and this will cause an issue with non-through cuts. I was using an 8” specialty blade and ran into this issue when I was cutting a grove and hit the knife. My saw is variable speed to I was easily able to adjust the speed for the 8” blade.

-- Paul, Beaverton OR, www.TravelbyPaul.com

View DurocShark's profile

DurocShark

62 posts in 1523 days


#11 posted 09-09-2011 10:57 PM

The knife on my saw is adjustable. The only issue for me is it’s further away from the blade, the smaller the blade gets.

-- -Don

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knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#12 posted 09-10-2011 12:52 AM

Speaking of riving knife or splitters, in addition to the issues of height and distance from the blade, the kerf width of most 8” blades tends to be narrower than most 10” blades, so the workpiece might get hung up on an RK or splitter that’s matched to the wider kerf of a 10” blade. Apologies if the issue was raised already…

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Paul M Cohen's profile

Paul M Cohen

83 posts in 2530 days


#13 posted 09-10-2011 01:22 AM

In my case the 8” blade is a little tighter than my 10” blades but not unsafe. I purchased it online no realizing it was not 10” and is not carbide. When I replace it the new blade will be 10” and carbide.

-- Paul, Beaverton OR, www.TravelbyPaul.com

View bluekingfisher's profile

bluekingfisher

1107 posts in 1732 days


#14 posted 09-12-2011 10:04 AM

Thanks for all the come back and input fellahs, much appreciated.

It would appear from your feedback, most are in favour of the 10” blade, as designed for the saw. I have to say I would have given a similar view if someone had asked me, BUT, having used an 8” blade on the material I was cutting it gave me excellent results with no additional effort.

I won’t be throwing my 10” blades out thtat’s for sure but I am now also a fan of the smaller blade.

Thanks again all

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

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