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Insulation?

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Forum topic by Jack_Wilson posted 11-27-2018 12:50 AM 746 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jack_Wilson

20 posts in 63 days


11-27-2018 12:50 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question rustic modern

I rent space in a barn across the road from my house, so my shop is very conveniently located for sure! I get a lot of space for a very reasonable amount of rent, the shop is 32’ x 44’ and maybe 16’ to the peak, so there is a goodly amount of floor space and head room. However I have a LOT of weather related issues because the barn is, well, a barn. Today they started putting a new roof over my section, which is awesome, (I’ve been asking for that for about 4 years), but while expensive, it doesn’t resolve the bulk of the problem, but it’s the right place to start! It really needs to be sealed up well, which it isn’t, and then insulated, and then I can consider how to go about heating it. At this point there is no point, in trying to heat it. The heat just literally blows away in the breeze that blows through. I’ve used 250,000 btu propane heater and I have to stand RIGHT next to it to get any warmth.

What do you all use for insulation? I’m looking for that miracle product that works well but wont break the bank as I have quite a bit of square footage to cover.

Thanks,
Jack

-- I'm older than I wanna be, and better looking than I should be.


23 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10747 posts in 1689 days


#1 posted 11-27-2018 01:06 AM

There is no miracle that won’t break the bank. Spray foam is expensive.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Jack_Wilson

20 posts in 63 days


#2 posted 11-27-2018 01:22 AM



There is no miracle that won’t break the bank. Spray foam is expensive.

- TheFridge

Oh, I know, THAT’S why I’m looking for a miracle!

-- I'm older than I wanna be, and better looking than I should be.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

878 posts in 1422 days


#3 posted 11-27-2018 01:09 PM



e

Oh, I know, THAT S why I m looking for a miracle!

- Jack_Wilson

i think the miracle youre lookin for is winning numbers for the lotto or relocating to a warmer climate.
its difficult sayin how to go without actually seeing what ya have to start with, but its not going to be cheap.

View clin's profile

clin

956 posts in 1199 days


#4 posted 11-27-2018 05:47 PM

The least expensive real insulation you could use is batt insulation. Though I doubt that is a good idea in an unsealed structure. But, just to put a lower limit on that, it is in the range of $0.50/sq-ft. Obviously that varies but it is in the ball park.

You have 2 x (32’ + 44’) = 152’ of perimeter. Assume that is just 8’ tall that’s 8×152 = 1,216 sq-ft or about $600 of batt insulation.

If the walls are higher (probably are), then this number goes up.

Just taking the square footage as the roof size (it’s of course more becasue it is sloped), that’s 32×44 = 1,400 sq-ft or about $700.

Both of these are underestimates, but you’d be looking at somewhere in the range of $1,300 in material minimum.

But, as mentioned, I don’t think it is suitable for an unsealed structure. Might be for the ceiling/roof, since that of course is sealed.

But without sealed walls, moisture, dirt, insects and rodents can get in and be a problem. So in all likelihood, spray foam is what would be needed.

I found this foam estimator online. 2” is in the range of $5k-$6k. No idea if this is DIY or their installed cost etc. Just one cost as seen on the internet. But sounds realistic to me.

https://sprayfoamkit.com/help-center/spray-foam-insulation-cost-estimator/

Now, if the wind literally blows through, and spending thousands is off the table, then consider some sort of rolled plastic. Something like 1/2” thick bubble wrap with a radiant barrier (foil) on one or both sides. No idea the cost.

Something like this would provide very little insulation value (too thin). But it would seal out the wind, and the radiant barrier would also help.

Another option is just put up thick plastic sheeting. Again, little to no R-value, but it would keep the wind from blowing through and probably go a long way to holding in some heat.

Also, again since the roof is sealed, you may be able to insulate that with batts, then just hang plastic on the walls.

WARNING!

Make sure anything you use meets code. And code or not, I’d make sure it is fire proof. Just using any old plastic on the walls, could be like lining your shop in gasoline.

-- Clin

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Jack_Wilson

20 posts in 63 days


#5 posted 11-28-2018 12:02 AM

Gentleman, unfortunately you all have told me stuff that I already know. New technologies are coming out all the time and was hoping that there was something new that I was unaware of. So not yet I guess. What I’d really like, (what most of us would like), is to just build a new shop from the ground up, but that’s for a richer man than I at this time. Maybe if I can cross that threshold this summer and make some real money, not just a little here and there, then it would make financial sense to buy a plot and build.

-- I'm older than I wanna be, and better looking than I should be.

View Eric's profile

Eric

70 posts in 76 days


#6 posted 11-28-2018 03:06 AM

Yes many ideashete and all good ones too.

I think your best bet is to start over from scratch with a new building. I do not have to deal with the bitter cold but it does get hot in the summer. Also a climate controlled building is very much better for the tools and your comfort.

I am designing a shop myself and from ground up the exterior and interior finished, my estimate is around 12k. That is for a 16’ x 24’ with a wooden floor, I have to build on a slight slope and do not want the concrete floor. Learning towards a timber frame structure.

Good luck

-- Eric, Upstate South Carolina

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WoodenDreams

296 posts in 114 days


#7 posted 11-28-2018 08:21 AM

Since this is a barn, I’d be filling or covering any air gaps to prevent heat loss. You may want to consider putting up a wall with doorway, or even a temporary wall from a cheap plastic tarp. Just like a construction crew putting up plastic on a perimeter, so the can keep the winter out. to lesson the amount of space you need to heat.

View eflanders's profile

eflanders

318 posts in 2053 days


#8 posted 11-28-2018 07:05 PM

Years ago I had my shop in an unheated garage. Living in WI, made it difficult to work comfortably without heat and Summer ventilation. I was able to use kraft faced batts, then I added a vapor barrier. I used a wall mounted propane heater, but my shop was much smaller than yours. This kept much of the heat in and the wind out. But if the shop wasn’t constantly heated to at least 60’ F, I had a real issue with condensation forming on my cold machines as I heated things up for working. The temperature / humidity variable also played havoc on my wood stock.

So what I’m saying is, once you figure out a way to insulate and heat it, keep it heated or you’ll have lots of rusty tools and warped wood.

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Jack_Wilson

20 posts in 63 days


#9 posted 11-28-2018 11:50 PM

Loop

This is what my shop looks like right now, there’s a 30” drift just inside the door that I have to wade through.

-- I'm older than I wanna be, and better looking than I should be.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

421 posts in 1305 days


#10 posted 11-29-2018 02:10 AM

I’m sure it is worth a lot to have your shop conveniently located. Additionally, you say the rent is reasonable. You don’t say how much money you would be willing to spend, but I’m sure you don;t want to spend a lot on some one else’s property. I wonder if the owner would share in the cost to make some improvements. A 22’ x 32” shop would be pretty respectable. Perhaps he/she would provide materials if you provide labor to tighten up and insulate just half of it. Maybe you would be willing to pay a bit more rent for this to be done. Otherwise, I agree with those above who suggest erecting some temporary enclosure within the barn in order to get a usable space. Do this with the owner’s permission, of course.

View eflanders's profile

eflanders

318 posts in 2053 days


#11 posted 11-29-2018 02:50 PM

Sometimes a guy’s gotta do with what you have to work with, I fully understand!

You may want to start with using house wrap or poly on the interior walls. This will allow the outside appearence to remain consistent. Then put up rigid foam sheets with a foil facing over the house wrap. This will keep the wind & weather outside yet allow some heat to remain inside as you work. House wrap is not very expensive and easily installed. The 4’ × 8’ sheets of rigid foam can be added to the work space as time and money allows. This will help you to stay warmer and your equipment from being snowed on.

BUT be forewarned it could also become a condensation trap as I mentioned in my previous post… You don’t mention what your flooring is. If it’s concrete, you will definately have condensation issues once you heat the place. But if you have a wood floor, you might not!

Good Luck!

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10747 posts in 1689 days


#12 posted 11-30-2018 03:34 AM

How about a force field? Didn’t they use those on Hoth to keep the snow out?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Jack_Wilson

20 posts in 63 days


#13 posted 11-30-2018 10:50 AM

I don’t know anything at all about Hoth, but I’m all about the force field! Amazon prime?

-- I'm older than I wanna be, and better looking than I should be.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

878 posts in 1422 days


#14 posted 11-30-2018 02:10 PM

howz about this:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor

do some time traveling and pick the winning lotto numbers for this weekend

View smitdog's profile

smitdog

411 posts in 2308 days


#15 posted 11-30-2018 04:06 PM

I’m with eflanders – my workshop is actually out in my barn which has three open bays so there is absolutely no stopping the weather. You could use a reflective low R-value wrap to seal out the weather – something like one of these from Menards and then as time and money allow you can add rigid foam panels to boost your R-value.

Since my shop space is only part of the interior area I just unrolled the stuff up on side – across the trusses and let it down on the other side and it just hangs there. It really does make it a lot nicer to work in the cold weather. I sectioned off maybe 15’x20’ or so and I heat it with a little propane bullet style heater. I don’t get it really warm but it’s enough for a light jacket or sweatshirt and no gloves most of the time, so maybe 45-50 degrees. If you tacked some of that up to the outside walls you’d definitely stop the snow drifts from coming in at least!

-- Jarrett - Mount Vernon, Ohio

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