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Forum topic by Greg In Maryland posted 1082 days ago 963 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Greg In Maryland

388 posts in 1625 days


1082 days ago

“Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration”

A. Lincoln, 1861


13 replies so far

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2632 days


#1 posted 1082 days ago

I suppose you could argue that labor has to be preceded by ideas. Moving a pile of rocks to another pile is labor but creates no capital. There must be superior ideas to direct the labor.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View BobTheFish's profile

BobTheFish

361 posts in 1178 days


#2 posted 1082 days ago

Sounds suspiciously anti-capitalist and quite socialist.

:P

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2302 days


#3 posted 1081 days ago

There are many out there who could captain industry but their conscience gets in the way in competition with those without one ;-(( I have lost many opportunities because I will not work illegally. I have no regrets. That is the magic hand of the market in action. As Greenspan said, fraud is a market risk, regulation is unnecessary because the market will take care of it, or something to that effect. I don’t remember the exact quote.

Lincoln was probably smarter than any of us ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

1654 posts in 1548 days


#4 posted 1081 days ago

digging a hole: Labor is the sweat applied and capital is the shovel. Both are important and dependent on the other. Ever try to dig a hole using just your fingernails?

-- In God We Trust

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TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2302 days


#5 posted 1081 days ago

When I started business, no one wanted to lend a dime for it. I was told that banks did not want to know contractors, fishermen or restaurants existed until they had been in business for at least 5 years. I told them I wouldn’t need them in 5 years and have never used a penny of anyone’s eles’s money beyond 30 accounts. I am living prof of labor being superior to capital, but I have never had more than 5 employees paid out of my own pocket. I had them at the 1.5 year mark, but my wife and I decided our family was more important than more capital ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3322 posts in 1440 days


#6 posted 1080 days ago

If you like that quote, then you should read Robert Kiyosaki’s “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”, or even Michael Gerber’s “E Myth Revisited.” They may change your mind.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2302 days


#7 posted 1079 days ago

CR, When ever Warren Buffet voices an opinion, I pretty much agree with him. I would not have saved Goldman Sachs, however. I suppose it is a matter of values. As the late great Paul Harvey reported about 20 yrs ago, for a Christian Nation, we are not doing very well. Only 13% live by what they claim to believe in on Sunday mornings. Most people I mention that to opine the % to be a little high and wonder where and how he got the information. He did not reveal any source.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2302 days


#8 posted 1079 days ago

pintodeluxe, Is Michael Gerber the guy that appears on PBS saying some people’s personalities do not allow them to grow a business very large because their performance standards are too high and they do not trust any employee to do the work?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

11297 posts in 1732 days


#9 posted 1079 days ago

I wish the likes of Abe Lincoln were still here to believe in labor in this country being superior to capital. If that were so, we would not have farmed out all of our manufacturing jobs for cheaper labor overseas ( capital before labor).
With the labor gone, so goes the source of our taxes and the ability to buy the extras in life that the last century middle class have enjoyed. The middle class were the backbone of this country buying the new cars, swimming pools and vacations etc. that supported the way of life we had. You will always have the very poor and the very rich, but they don’t keep the country going like the middle class DID.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration”

A. Lincoln, 1861….................Amen!

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

View Greg In Maryland's profile

Greg In Maryland

388 posts in 1625 days


#10 posted 1079 days ago

Warren Buffet is in the process of giving away nearly all of his fortune to five foundations, The largest beneficiary being the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to the tune of $30 billion (in 2006). Obviously, profit is central to Warren Buffet’s motivation, but to equate him with the Soros’ is completely inaccurate. Is he flawed? Certainly, as we all are. But he is less flawed, by miles, than so many others who have amassed fortunes.

View FlWoodRat's profile

FlWoodRat

732 posts in 2536 days


#11 posted 1079 days ago

Idea. Investment. Facilities, Production.Marketing. Sales. Revenues, salaries, wages commissions, taxes, dividends. It’s a cycle wherein each step supports the efforts of the others. Without any of them, the cycle breaks, businesses fail, jobs are lost, tax revenues decline, social cost increase and we are all the poorer for it.

Without the idea, there will be no investors.
Without investors, there will be no manufacturing facility
Without facilities, there will be no need for a work force
Without a work force, there will be no production.
Without production, there will be no need to market
Without marketing, there will be no sales,
Without sales, there will be no revenues
Without revenues, there will be no salaries, wages,commissions, dividends or taxes.

We need all segments to thrive and to keep the cycle going.

Just my opinion.

What we need to do is to foster ideas and capital investments to bring our jobs home, and return our great nation to one that PRODUCES vs one that just provides service. Honor the working men and women as well as those who risk what they have to provide the jobs.

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

View jim C's profile

jim C

1452 posts in 1725 days


#12 posted 1079 days ago

Topamax survivor- Sounds like you are the Michael Gerber of business. We called that a “Micro Manager”. No one was good enough to “do it right” except the owner. That’s why businesses never grow. They are stifled by the the owner themselves. Those people never admit it and, as a result the business suffers and never gets traction. The owner loses interest and the company ceases to exist.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2302 days


#13 posted 1079 days ago

Not real sure what Michael Gerber’s total program is and I really don’t know anything about hm.

There are certain people like that and I tend to lean that way to some extent, but I have always been able to identify the strengths and weakness of employees and people on my crews when I was in supervision. When I stated business, I had little choice in which way to go as stated above.

I was sort of trapped by my own abilities to some extent. When customers are used to me fixing their equipment and having the plant up and running again in a matter of hours, I cannot send a guy out that spends 2 days to do the same thing. Customer has excessive loss of production and possibly affecting their clients schedules plus they do not want to pay a bill that is 4x what it would be if I had done it.

My wife and I decided to not go and grow after the first few years. I really enjoy what I do. Setting at a desk is very difficult for me for very long, especially on a nice day. I absolutely hate sales!! I have always been very fortunate and had more demand than I could supply and standing offers to go to work anytime I wanted a job.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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