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Accuracy: Miter saw vs TS Miter sled

4K views 41 replies 19 participants last post by  Poplarguy 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I make a lot of small picture frames during the holidays for gifts. I like them to be perfect.

I've been using a Dewalt DWS 780 Miter saw with a sharp Freud blade and I'm not overly thrilled with how tight my miter joints are. I wind up doing a lot of finish sanding/filling on them which is a pain because I'm using some pretty hard woods. They're close, but not perfect.

I'm considering the Incra miter sled because I've been happy with the repeatable accuracy using other products I have from them, but they're not cheap. I don't mind spending money for a quality tool, but I don't want to spend money without getting a perfect joint, repeatedly.

Is anyone out there using an Incra miter sled and doing a volume of frames on the TS, or built their own miter sled?
 
#4 ·
Thank you Grant, yes I'm running their router plate, LS Positioner on the router and a box joint jig for the TS and I know they make quality stuff for sure.

I've seen those miter trimmers, but I believe they do need to be cut with a miter saw first, then run through that trimmer. So there's now 2 steps to each cut. Plus, I don't see it being an easy thing to force a blade to chop through, say, a 1" x 2.5" wide cherry or oak frame!
 
#5 ·
Thank you Grant, yes I m running their router plate, LS Positioner on the router and a box joint jig for the TS and I know they make quality stuff for sure.

I ve seen those miter trimmers, but I believe they do need to be cut with a miter saw first, then run through that trimmer. So there s now 2 steps to each cut. Plus, I don t see it being an easy thing to force a blade to chop through, say, a 1" x 2.5" wide cherry or oak frame!

- Poplarguy
i have one and if you like perfect corners it will get it done.yes its an extra step but for frames its the way too go.they shave a very thin slice off so you need to cut your pieces close to finish length then clean it up with the trimmer.
 
#6 ·
Thank you Grant, yes I m running their router plate, LS Positioner on the router and a box joint jig for the TS and I know they make quality stuff for sure.

I ve seen those miter trimmers, but I believe they do need to be cut with a miter saw first, then run through that trimmer. So there s now 2 steps to each cut. Plus, I don t see it being an easy thing to force a blade to chop through, say, a 1" x 2.5" wide cherry or oak frame!

- Poplarguy
I have one of the original Lion miter trimmers. You are correct that you make a rough cut first and then clean it up with the trimmer. You do not take off large bites of wood. You take thin shavings. Once you get the fence set accurately every single miter will be dead nuts on 45 degrees and the mating surfaces will be as smooth as glass. You cannot beat these for picture frames.

The other option is to use a plane with a shooting board.
 
#7 ·
I use the Incra HD1000 miter gauge and it has virtually replaced my cross cut sled. I can dial it in to dead on miters when necessary. Use a ZCI and add a sacrificial face to the fence to back up the cut and I think you can get clean cuts at dead 45 repeatedly at much less cost than the full sled. Not that I would discourage owning the sled! I just see at is being better suited for larger work. I think the miter gauge would be sufficient for making frames.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think a table saw sled or a miter gauge (a good one) will be more accurate than a miter saw.

I'm considering making a jig like the one in this video.

Not only is it important that you can dial-in repeatable accurate angles, but you must also have accurate length parts.
The sides have to be exactly the same length. I think a shooting board would definitely help when you need to remove a sliver of wood to get a tight fit. I wonder though how a small change in the length affects the fit when you have multiple parts.
 
#12 ·
+1 Miter jig
Either make/buy a TS miter sled,
OR
make a 45 miter jig for miter/chop saw
(use blade set for 90, jig is trimmed to exactly 90, while blade cuts roughly in middle, into (2) 45's by cutting ends on each side blade)
Forget which thread had a chop saw miter jig posted, but I know several examples exist.
Chop saw miter jig works best with full thickness blades to reduce wobble, especially on sliding miter saw.

Best Luck.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
This caught my eye recently, if you do a lot of frames it seems like a handy setup. Not a replacement for a sled or good miter gauge though
https://woodworker.com/cast-iron-miter-trimmer-mssu-876-782.asp?search=Miter%20trimmer&searchmode=2

- GrantA
one of the better investments I ever made was the old cast iron guillotine trimmer.
if you plan to do much precise miter work, it is well worth checking into.

.

.

- John Smith
It's the other way around…a miter or table saw, no matter what you do to it, is not a replacement for that tool. I also make a lot of picture frames {year around} and there is no way I would do it without a miter trimmer. I got mine from Rockler. It wasn't exactly cheap, but it will make perfect miters every time. You still have to cut a 45 close to the length, you don't use the trimmer to cut through a solid board at 45 degrees. It will shave a very thin "see thru" piece of wood off the frame or you can shave off like 1/8" if you have to, but it works better taking a little at a time.
One other suggestion is to make a framing table to glue the frames together…it is very easy and works way better than any store bought clamp set up.

Edit: one last piece of info, you really must make certain that you are working with dead perfect straight and square boards before you try to miter them into a frame. Any aspect of the wood that is not perfectly straight and dead perfect square will not result in a perfect miter.
 
#14 ·
This caught my eye recently, if you do a lot of frames it seems like a handy setup. Not a replacement for a sled or good miter gauge though
https://woodworker.com/cast-iron-miter-trimmer-mssu-876-782.asp?search=Miter%20trimmer&searchmode=2

- GrantA

one of the better investments I ever made was the old cast iron guillotine trimmer.
if you plan to do much precise miter work, it is well worth checking into.

.

.

- John Smith

It s the other way around…a miter or table saw, no matter what you do to it, is not a replacement for that tool. I also make a lot of picture frames {year around} and there is no way I would do it without a miter trimmer. I got mine from Rockler. It wasn t exactly cheap, but it will make perfect miters every time. You still have to cut a 45 close to the length, you don t use the trimmer to cut through a solid board at 45 degrees. It will shave a very thin "see thru" piece of wood off the frame or you can shave off like 1/8" if you have to, but it works better taking a little at a time.
One other suggestion is to make a framing table to glue the frames together…it is very easy and works way better than any store bought clamp set up.

Edit: one last piece of info, you really must make certain that you are working with dead perfect straight and square boards before you try to miter them into a frame. Any aspect of the wood that is not perfectly straight and dead perfect square will not result in a perfect miter.

- msinc
Thank you, that is helpful info. I'm looking into those miter trimmers now, it seems my first impression might've been a bit off. That might be the way to go.

I appreciate the info from all.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thank you, that is helpful info. I m looking into those miter trimmers now, it seems my first impression might've been a bit off. That might be the way to go.

I appreciate the info from all.

- Poplarguy
Actually I just realized I lied…sorry about that…I didn't get my miter trimmer from Rockler, I got mine from Highland Woodworking. I did not opt for the "top trim attachment" or the "measuring attachment". The manual miter box saw might not be a bad idea either, I don't use one, but I can see how it might be an advantage especially with certain wood types. With the miter trimmer you don't have to be real close in your initial cut, it just has to be ballpark at best. the hand saw just might help to prevent splitting or a power saw gunching up the wood right where you are trying to get a perfect miter. Here are a few photos of some bald cypress frames done with the trimmer:
Wood Hardwood Varnish Wood stain Flooring


Brown Wood Rectangle Flooring Material property


Brown Wood Wood stain Hardwood Tints and shades
 

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#19 ·
Oddly, after discussing this with a friend it appears an acquaintance of his has an older CTD double miter saw tucked away in his garage that he's wanting to get rid of for not more than the price of a miter trimmer. It'd need a new set of blades but is in good running condition.

How accurate are these things?

Would this be the end-all way to go for the most accurate cuts in a fast manner? Downside is I'd have another tool on the floor, if that could be considered a downside…
 
#20 ·
I don't know anything about that saw Poplarguy. Hell, I've never even heard of a double miter saw. But that thing looks like a beast. So yes, you should definitely buy it! ;-)

But in all seriousness, without knowing anything about those tools, it looks like a heavy-duty pro-level industrial machine. So I'd be willing to bet that it's the production shop solution for clean, matching miters.
 
#21 ·
!
This is an example of where grain and color matching is more important than a couple of thousandths of an inch gap at the miter.

- Rich
You might not be the biggest jerkass I have run across…..but rest assured you are in the top 3!!!! You are wrong as usual. What does your hero tig frag say about using the boards you have when that is all you have?? I didn't post this for you to critique but I understand that a jackass cannot help himself, you do it to everyone. Is it alcoholism??? Seriously dude, go get yourself a drink and calm down.
 
#22 ·
!
This is an example of where grain and color matching is more important than a couple of thousandths of an inch gap at the miter.

- Rich

You might not be the biggest jerkass I have run across…..but rest assured you are in the top 3!!!! You are wrong as usual. What does your hero tig frag say about using the boards you have when that is all you have?? I didn t post this for you to critique but I understand that a jackass cannot help himself, you do it to everyone. Is it alcoholism??? Seriously dude, go get yourself a drink and calm down. Don't bother to waste your time with some stupid jackass typical come back…I am done with Lumberjerks, especially you. Sooner or later the moron that runs this site will realize who the asshole is that is making decent people go away and do something about it.

- msinc
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
!
This is an example of where grain and color matching is more important than a couple of thousandths of an inch gap at the miter.

- Rich

You might not be the biggest jerkass I have run across…..but rest assured you are in the top 3!!!! You are wrong as usual. What does your hero tig frag say about using the boards you have when that is all you have?? Oh wait, he's dead!!! Maybe you can dig him up, shock him back to life and the two of you can get married…..I didn't post this for you to critique, but I understand that a jackass cannot help himself, you do it to everyone. Is it alcoholism??? Seriously dude, go get yourself a drink and calm down. Don't bother to waste your time with some stupid jackass typical come back…I am done with Lumberjerks, especially you. Sooner or later the moron that runs this site will realize who the asshole is that is making decent people go away and do something about it.

- msinc

- msinc
 
#25 ·
Grant,

I miter sled is a good, inexpensive option and wouldn't involve an additional tool in the shop.

The can be made integral to the sled or made to mount to an existing sled.

Just Google "miter sled" and you'll get some ideas.

FWIW, and I don't do a lot of picture frames, I don't rely on miter saws for accuracy. I get them close and then use a shooting board.

Whether a shooting board or miter trimmer, I just think a knife edge is going to give a cleaner cut compared to a saw.
 
#26 ·
Thank you for the suggestion on the shooting board/plane.

I guess I'm looking at the shooting board option as something that would be very difficult to ensure exact lengths of opposing sides, which would negate any accuracy of the miter itself. I'm also wondering if that might be the case with the trimmer as well?

It also seems that's adding a lot of handwork to doing 50 or more frames, which is precisely what I'm looking to reduce. Might be a case of me reducing the time I spend sanding/filling inaccurate miters but replacing that time with having to run each through a plane/shooting board.

Doing a bit of research on that double miter saw now, serious questions as to whether that would yield exactly what I'm getting now as far as results or not though.
 
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