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Refining the measuring standards

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Forum topic by Sylvain posted 11-17-2018 04:23 PM 721 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Sylvain

751 posts in 2698 days


11-17-2018 04:23 PM

Topic tags/keywords: resource measure

look at an entertaining presentation by Bill Phillips from NIST (US).

jump at 1’50” to start.

Yesterday 2018/11/16, fundamental measuring standards were redefined.

The new standards were adopted unanimously by the Member States.
In this 2d video , at 9’16” the vote of the US representative.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn


27 replies so far

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Bill White

5123 posts in 4159 days


#1 posted 11-17-2018 06:37 PM

So now we have to throw away all of our stuff?
I can’t EVEN comprehend.

-- bill@magraphics.us

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AlaskaGuy

4772 posts in 2508 days


#2 posted 11-17-2018 08:33 PM

I much prefer the KISS system

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Ripper70

1163 posts in 1107 days


#3 posted 11-17-2018 08:43 PM

So, does that mean I just got taller or shorter?

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

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Bill White

5123 posts in 4159 days


#4 posted 11-17-2018 10:09 PM

No Ripper. You just weigh differently. Wonder when the Imperial system will fade away?

-- bill@magraphics.us

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Rick S...

10913 posts in 3231 days


#5 posted 11-18-2018 02:01 AM


I much prefer the KISS system

- AlaskaGuy

Me also AG! You’re such a “Sweet Guy”! ... lol ….

Rick S.

P.S. That was One BORING 30 Minute Video! .... Glad I only watched 5 Minutes of it! ...LOL…

-- I Chose "The Road Less Travelled" Now I'm Totally Lost! (Ontario, CANADA)

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AlaskaGuy

4772 posts in 2508 days


#6 posted 11-18-2018 04:12 AM

I much prefer the KISS system

- AlaskaGuy

Me also AG! You re such a “Sweet Guy”! ... lol ….

Rick S.

P.S. That was One BORING 30 Minute Video! .... Glad I only watched 5 Minutes of it! ...LOL…

- Rick S…


Your attention span is twice what mine is. :)

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Sylvain

751 posts in 2698 days


#7 posted 11-18-2018 06:19 PM

No panic,
nothing will change in most people day to day life.

The legal kilogramme will not anymore be determined by an artefact ( a lump of Pt-Ir alloy) but by universal constants which are valid anywhere in the universe.
In case you want to colonize the planet Mars and you don’t bring your weight and measures with you…

The comparison of the masses used as mass standards in various Countries was showing drifting of the individual values, this problem is solved with the new international standard.

For those who like the US customary units, one pound first defined by the Mendenhall Order of 1893 as:
1 lb = 0.4535924277 kg
changed in 1959 to
1 lb = 0. 45359237 kg (by agreement between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States )
should remain unchanged.

Boring video? Once passed the formal presentation of the speaker (1’50”), you can hear the audience laughing a dozen times…

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View Dark_Lightning's profile

Dark_Lightning

3340 posts in 3308 days


#8 posted 11-18-2018 06:32 PM

The original kilogram mass standards have changed weight due to the radioactive decay of some of the atoms over time; thus a new standard had to be defined.

https://phys.org/news/2011-04-scientists-kilo-weight.html

Doesn’t mean much in our shops or at the store, but interesting, nonetheless.

-- Random Orbital Nailer

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Sylvain

751 posts in 2698 days


#9 posted 11-18-2018 06:39 PM

Thank you for the comment and link Dark_lightning.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

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jbay

2861 posts in 1098 days


#10 posted 11-18-2018 06:39 PM



The original kilogram mass standards have changed weight due to the radioactive decay of some of the atoms over time; thus a new standard had to be defined.

https://phys.org/news/2011-04-scientists-kilo-weight.html

Doesn t mean much in our shops or at the store, but interesting, nonetheless.

- Dark_Lightning

They probably didn’t account for the change in the gravitational pull at the time they weighed.
Or maybe the curvature of the earth. Wonder what the air pressure in the room was?
Humidity might have made a difference.
Atoms, radiation breakdown…....
It’s all over my head.
I’ll just stick with my tape measure and calculator, and go along with whatever they say.

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Sylvain

751 posts in 2698 days


#11 posted 11-18-2018 10:32 PM

Jbay,
For the comparison method, look here

select the tab “verifications”

about the drift, look under the tab “FAQs”
“But why are the International Prototype and its copies diverging in mass? There must be some explanation.”

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View jbay's profile

jbay

2861 posts in 1098 days


#12 posted 11-18-2018 10:58 PM

”Planck constant and the Avogadro constant.”

Good Deal, I was worried about that. :)

View Richard Lee's profile

Richard Lee

196 posts in 974 days


#13 posted 11-18-2018 11:10 PM

You mean Ive been short changed on my “Legal Weed” ?

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

4772 posts in 2508 days


#14 posted 11-19-2018 12:46 AM



You mean Ive been short changed on my “Legal Weed” ?

- Richard Lee

Probably on all the weed you have bought :)

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Sylvain

751 posts in 2698 days


#15 posted 11-19-2018 05:54 PM

Speaking of small quantities, the commercially tolerated mass deficit in EU on a 5g package is 9%.

That is to say a deficit of 0.000450 kg which is only about 10 times the mass drift between the 1kg standard masses used to calibrate secondary standard which I guess might themselves serve to calibrate standard used “in the field”. (there might be more steps). Of course with each further step down the calibration chain there will be an error. That is why one wants to star with the best possible primary standard.

I don’t know the accepted tolerance for pharmacy products.

To compare apples with apples, the tolerated deficit on a 1kg package is 0.015 kg (1.5%) ( 300 X the drift )

Now apparently ridiculously small numbers ( 0.000050kg on 1 kg) adds up when you sell and buy millions of tons.
And we know some politicians who like to tax importations…

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

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