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Forum topic by Bertha posted 08-31-2011 08:18 PM 2117 views 0 times favorited 48 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


08-31-2011 08:18 PM

Topic tags/keywords: bullcoming melendez diaz justin bieber

I don’t expect this thread to get much attention but I’ve noticed some pretty high caliber political arguments around here with some well read combatants on both sides. Here’s a recent Supreme Court decision that’s becoming growingly problematic in the courts. I’m curious if anyone’s familiar with this decision and whether you have any predictions. The second link provides html and pdf links to the dissenting opinion (not that I’m biased or anything but I’ll provide it here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/9-10876P.ZD) ;)

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-10876.pdf

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/9-10876.ZS.html

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog


48 replies so far

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superstretch

1530 posts in 2158 days


#1 posted 08-31-2011 08:27 PM

I’m a hardcore followerer of Constitution Law/Judicial Law, but tl;dr at the moment. I am, however, thrilled that there are some justices who still have their heads on straight—

http://www.newburyportnews.com/opinion/x2134993461/Court-upholds-publics-right-to-monitor-police
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2011/08/17/key-part-of-obamacare-unconstitutional-eleventh-circuit-rules/

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


#2 posted 08-31-2011 08:32 PM

Life is tl;dr at the moment for me. This particular decision is making my life difficult. I pay attorneys a lot of money and none of them can tell me what’s ACTUALLY going to happen. But whatever it is, it’s starting to happen. I’m glad you’re a ConLaw fanboy. We need more of those. If you ever get some downtime, at least skim it and read the dissent.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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superstretch

1530 posts in 2158 days


#3 posted 08-31-2011 08:34 PM

Roger that. In brief? I skimmed and it looked like evidence had to be presented manually?

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


#4 posted 08-31-2011 08:38 PM

That’s a pretty good Cliff. It means that the defense can call all manner of ancillary staff to appear from the outside lab to the mailroom. I’m still unsure who’s going to accept the financial burden of producing these witnesses.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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steviep

233 posts in 2112 days


#5 posted 08-31-2011 08:44 PM

Really Al, Justin Bieber?????

-- StevieP ~ Micheal Tompkins - you were not here on earth long but left a giant mark on us. RIP Brother

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superstretch

1530 posts in 2158 days


#6 posted 08-31-2011 08:47 PM

Oh yeah.. I totally forgot to mention that.

Dude. What gives. Baby Baby Baby been on repeat on your ipod all day?

edit I don’t like that when I search for “somebody to love” on youtube, he beats out Queen.

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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DonnyBahama

215 posts in 1996 days


#7 posted 08-31-2011 08:53 PM

Political arguments? Around here? Please… let’s not spoil things! ;)

I have no thoughts on Bullcoming, but as for Constitution Law, I personally think that Citizens United v. FEC was the beginning of the end for this country as we know it (and as the founding fathers intended it.) Combined with the general gullibility of the citizenry, it gave the Koch Brothers and ALEC free reign to legislatively subvert the most fundamental underpinnings of the Constitution. I have become a future expatriate. I just need to find a country with good weather, good civil rights policy, a single-payer healthcare system, and good, sustainable forestry. (Panama is looking pretty good.)

-- Founding member of the (un)Official LumberJock's Frugal Woodworking Society - http://lumberjocks.com/topics/29451

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David Grimes

2078 posts in 2105 days


#8 posted 08-31-2011 09:03 PM

Al, I did just read the entire thing.

First, thank you for taking nearly 30 minutes from my precious life (yeah, I took the Helen Keller speed reading course long ago). =) <= lol @ new symbol

Second, That’s crazy. So will there be a new job category of watching the GS while it runs overnight to make certain that the chain of evidence is not broken ? Will that have to be the same person that filled out the paperwork AND goes to court ?

Third, (a question)... Do they pay mileage for the lab jobs in New Mexico ?

Fourth (last) – So what other case NEEDS this exclusion of evidence and WHO is it important to ? To err on the side of caution is a good thing, but not if squarely in the realm of stupidity.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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David Grimes

2078 posts in 2105 days


#9 posted 08-31-2011 09:08 PM

Hey, Donny. Don’t forget Belize.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


#10 posted 08-31-2011 09:10 PM

^whew. Thank you, Grimes. I was worried that I was the only one. =) I like the new symbol, too, and will be stealing it=). First, sorry about that; it is painful. Second, EVERYONE’S fair game. You can no longer just subpoena the guy (doctor, for example) that “interpreted” the data; you now subpoena everyone involved with the generation of that data (from beginning to end). Third, who pays is still up in the air. Let’s not talk too loudly about who pays. For now, at least, the defense has been absorbing most of it. Fourth, I like the notion of being able to face your accuser. However, the lab nerd with the MS in molecular biochemistry, the guy twisting knobs on the chromatograph, he’s not your accuser. It allows the defense to impeach ancillary staff in an effor to muddy the waters. These waters are revealing an iceberg’s tip, I fear.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


#11 posted 08-31-2011 09:14 PM

Donny, I feel the urge. I understand your compulsion to bail. It’s very frustrating because I love America. I know of quite a few retirees that are headed to Costa Rica where their paltry retirement stretches a little further. We probably should say Belize and Panama too loudly; keep it a secret=)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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HorizontalMike

7153 posts in 2379 days


#12 posted 08-31-2011 09:52 PM

Hey Al,
I have only two words for your West Virginia Homeboy Expert Medical Examiner Fred Zane that you sent to South Texas:

He Lied.
And Here is a Barry Scheck interview on Fred Zane’s lies. [excerpt]...”DNA technology has exposed a lot of unreliable methods and has made the law enforcement community realize that forensic scientists shouldn’t be police—cops in lab coats. What we have failed to do in this country is develop a tradition where forensic science is an independent brute force in the criminal justice system, where the same kind of vigorous standards that we require for medical scientists and research scientists are applied to forensic scientists. We have a lot of problems in the crime labs in this country. There are two chapters in our book, one about “junk forensic science,” so-called, and another chapter about fraudulent forensic science, because we have problems everywhere. Today, we have lab scandals all over the place. We describe one in West Virginia, involving Fred Zane, whose dry lab didn’t even do the experiments in about 330 cases, at the very least.

He just faked the data?

Faked the data. They had inconclusives, or just gave the results they wanted, didn’t even do the tests. He moved on to San Antonio, Texas, where he did the same thing. Joyce Gilchrist, whom we mention in our book in the first edition (we have a new one coming out in the fall), has now been caught in Oklahoma City, a known ersatz forensic scientist, who was caught giving results that didn’t make any sense, where she may not have even done the work, and she’s been fired. Now they’re looking at 3,000 cases and [will] whittle them down to another about 300. We have lab scandals today in Houston, Texas—Harris County. If Harris County, Texas, were a state, they would have executed more people in this country than any state other than Texas.”

P.S. It really, really screwed things up here in Texas and we all wished you had kept this good-ole-boy in WV. Too bad he died before any real justice was served him. That being said, I truly believe the Fred Zane case applies to such a ruling in your posted case on DWI.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Bertha

13003 posts in 2158 days


#13 posted 08-31-2011 10:15 PM

Awesome!!! Leave it to Horizontal to be on it like a hawk. Zane’s not a medical examiner, though, Mike. He was a scumbag toxicologist, if even that. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Zain

I can’t believe I just referenced wikipedia. Oh well, we’re all woodworkers here.

The jurisprudence section of the AAFS talked a lot about ole Zane last year, lol. I was embarrassed to say where I lived for the first time. You’re right, Mike, Zane kind of nucleated this whole mess (you like that astro lingo? ;) It’s since supernova’d, as I’m sure you’re aware. Old Barry and the Innocence crew, always tinkering with the nucleotides, lol.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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Sodabowski

2308 posts in 2298 days


#14 posted 08-31-2011 10:29 PM

Dunno what you guys really are talking about, but I have several bottles of a delicately brewed french beer from the Alps handy if any of you want a nice drink to go along with your chat :)

-- Thomas - Pondering the inclusion of woodworking into physics and chemistry classes...

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7153 posts in 2379 days


#15 posted 08-31-2011 10:33 PM

I was living in San Antonio in the late 1980s-90s when all this was blowing up and it was bigger than any Hurricane ever dreamed of being.

Scumbag forensic toxicologist it is ;-)
Even though some sources indicate otherwise.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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