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Forum topic by MatthewW posted 1086 days ago 1291 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


1086 days ago

Hello everyone and thanks for taking the time to read this!

I’ve been getting setup with a few tools to make some speaker boxes and take care of some projects around the house. Craigslist has been a great resource for quality tools when you know what to look for, but sometimes the best deals come with a few repairs to be done.

I started with a Delta 34-670 I got for $50. I replaced the ribbed belt and gave it a through cleaning, lube and tune up. It turned out to be a great bench top saw, but it’s loud, small, has a universal motor which I fear won’t last too long and the fence leaves A LOT to be desired.

Recently I found a 34-410 contractor’s saw for the same price and I intend to fix this up and sell off the smaller saw to recoup some $. The issues it has are the arbor bearings (I understand this is a common problem and relatively easy to fix) as well as some motor problems (maybe).

The problems with the motor are:

1. The pulley won’t stay straight when I tighten down the setscrew. It seems to push it out of true by about 1/16”. Both pulley’s were replaced with browning cast iron pulleys by the previous owner.

2. The same thing happens with the setscrew on the motor’s fan. It also goes out of alignment when tightening the setscrew.

3. The motor makes a hissing noise when it comes close to stopping, I think this may be part of the starting mechanism but I’d like to hear more opinions.

4. The bearings seem to be making a bit of noise. I took it apart to check and while they aren’t “bad” they don’t seem to spin like new bearings should.

What would you all suggest? I haven’t used one of these since HS wood shop so I don’t know if I should be worrying. Is this small amount of run-out on the motor pulley an issue? It’s not vibrating badly, but I don’t want to have the motor break because I ignored the problems. I think right now my options are to run it as is and hope it last a while, buy a pulley set and new motor bearings and try to fix it myself, or take it to a repair center if these problems need to be corrected. A new motor is a little out of my budget right now and would cost 6 times what I paid for the saw.

Thanks!


13 replies so far

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15683 posts in 2843 days


#1 posted 1086 days ago

I’m not really an expert on motors, but I’m answering to bump your question back up to the top of the list.

If it was me, my concern would be with how true the blade was turning. If the motor was working and not making an outrageous amount of noise, I wouldn’t worry about it.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2301 days


#2 posted 1086 days ago

I’m not really a motor guy either, but I am an electrician. Most motor problems are fcaused by overloading or bearing problems.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


#3 posted 1086 days ago

Thanks guys, I think I’ll take it to a shop tomorrow and ask for their opinion. The guy who answered the phone said he’ll do a free inspection but if it needs repairs it could be close to $100 for bearings and labor. Not as bad as a new motor but still pretty high. Thing is, I’m sure I could put some new bearings in, I just don’t know if the other sound I’m hearing is normal.

My only other concern is the run-out of the pulley and fan. Have you guys checked the motor pulley run-out? I’m wondering if this much is normal? I might stop by Harbor Freight tomorrow and pick up a cheap dial indicator if the motor tech isn’t sure, but I’m still not sure how much I should be looking for.

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TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2301 days


#4 posted 1086 days ago

I have never checked run out on anything,

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

14721 posts in 2301 days


#5 posted 1086 days ago

Other than by eye ball ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View MatthewW's profile

MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


#6 posted 1086 days ago

Well I found out I can borrow a dial gauge from my girl’s Dad tomorrow, but I can already eyeball the run-out so it’s pretty bad.

I just can’t believe no one has had this pulley problem before. I mean if you tighten the set-screw on one side it seems inevitable that it would tilt the other way. Maybe it really isn’t an issue at all since the arbor bearings will keep things in check and the amount of run-out on the pulley doesn’t matter.

I just don’t want this to cause problems in the future; when I put effort into something I want to do it right, ya know?

View Minorhero's profile

Minorhero

199 posts in 1230 days


#7 posted 1085 days ago

I like to restore old woodworking machines so I have taken apart about a dozen motors thus far. My typical procedure when I get a new machine is to take the motor and machine apart and replace the bearings. Most companies say their bearings are “sealed for life” but that really translates into about 10 to 20 years of use depending on how hard you use it. To replace the bearings you are going to need a bearing puller, I like the kind that has 3 jaws. You can pick one up for about 30 dollars at your local chain auto parts store.

As for the pulleys. I would pull both of them and look at where they are connecting under the set screw. To throw the entire pulley off 1/16” it would have to be really really chewed up down there. More likely you just have bad pulleys (or perhaps the previous owner used the wrong size pulley? is there a lot of slack when the pulley is on the shaft?). Good thing is that pulleys are really pretty cheap. I tend to buy mine from McMaster Carr. Just measure your outer and inner diameter and make sure you have the right belt size. You should be able to pick up new ones for around 8 dollars a piece.

If you are seeing a lot of run-put on the saw blade that means either 1) your bearings are bad or 2) your arbor is bent.

Best case scenario, its your bearings and you just replace them (I buy rubber sealed bearings for all my replacements also called 2RS – so look at the numbers on your bearings and if for example they are 6202 bearings then buy 6202-2RS). Worst case scenario is that after you replace the bearings you still have a lot of run-out then its probably your arbor. You can buy replacement arbor assemblies for that machine but according to the parts sites it will cost you about $115. You may find it cheaper on ebay or from someone parting out their machine.

As for the “whispering noise” that does not much concern me unless it sounds like metal is actually being ground away. Some motors are just noisier then others.

View MatthewW's profile

MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


#8 posted 1085 days ago

Thanks for the info Minorhero. There are probably a few thousandths of clearance between the motor shaft and pulley. I think this is because the saw ran without a key installed for some time. It was missing when I bought it and the set screw was tightened into the keyway. I’ve replaced it, but I think the pulley has worn slightly, I doubt the motor shaft wore as much. It’s enough clearance to wiggle around by hand a little. The runout on the motor pulley is close to .009” on the inside edge, is that too much? The shaft and arbor have less than .001” runout so I know I’m good there. If I have to get new pulleys I’ll probably get the machined steel upgrades unless I shouldn’t for some reason.

I’m replacing the motor bearings with the sealed version as you suggested. The gentleman at the bearing supply store also confirmed that this is probably the better option, even though there shouldn’t be too much difference in this case. I’ll call around to see how much a shop would charge to press them on and off, but if it’s more than I paid for the bearings, I’ll probably just rent the tool from an auto parts store and try myself.

View Minorhero's profile

Minorhero

199 posts in 1230 days


#9 posted 1084 days ago

The pulleys should slide on by hand but it should be a snug fit and you should not be able to wiggle them around. On more then one occasion I have needed to use a bearing puller to remove pulleys that have been on a shaft for a while.

If your pulleys can wiggle then that is a really bad sign. If you are really lucky it is just the pulley that is worn. More likely your arbor is also worn. New pulleys can confirm that. Many pulleys I buy from McMaster Carr come painted on the inner diameter and that creates a snug fit that I often have to sand off just to get them on shafts. In your case that might make the difference between a loose pulley and a tight one. I suppose you could also try adding your own paint to build that layer up some if it is still too loose.

Hope that helps.

View MatthewW's profile

MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


#10 posted 1084 days ago

I stopped by the bearing supplier and they happened to have replacement pulleys as well. The arbor pulley had a crack (possibly from me removing it) and the motor pulley turned out to be the wrong size, as well as being loose and out of round. They had to order one, but it’ll be there tomorrow and I’m not in a rush. I did a test fit and the new part is MUCH better. I picked up the cast iron browning versions and made sure to get the proper size this time. I’ll also get a new belt when I pick everything up.

Now I just have to find a shop to press the bearings off/on for a decent price or risk doing it myself. Anybody in the San Jose, CA area know of a good shop?

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1850 posts in 2186 days


#11 posted 1083 days ago

Since you are replacing the belt, I’d get a link belt. I finally replaced the original belt on mine a month ago (the original was about 20 years old) and now the old saw passes the nickel test!

-- Joe

View Minorhero's profile

Minorhero

199 posts in 1230 days


#12 posted 1083 days ago

Pressing the bearings on is not a big deal and can easily be done yourself. I ended up buying an h-frame press from harbor freight because I do it so much. However, before I started using the press I probably pressed on a dozen or so bearings with nothing more then a block of wood to act as a cushion, a hammer, and a 2×4 with a hole cut in it.

You just put the bearing on by hand (it doesn’t fit on very far) then put the bearing on the 2×4 with a hole cut in it so that the hole is big enough to accept the shaft but too small for the bearing. Then using the block of wood as a cushion, hit the other end of the shaft. Takes a couple of minutes but your bearing will go on just fine.

Another option that is more delicate (but one I have never bothered to try since the above method always works fine) is to put the bearing ontop of a 100 watt light bulb and let it heat up. Once it is nice and hot, using gloves pick up the bearing and put it on the shaft. The heat should make the bearing expand enough to slip right on. Others have done this and reported good success. Just make sure you use a lightbulb and not a fire or torch.

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MatthewW

23 posts in 1086 days


#13 posted 1081 days ago

Well I managed to get the motor bearings pressed on and the assembly back together. There is much less noise and vibration now. I ended up using a copper pipe to tap it on, as suggested on another forum, and the size was just right. I put the rotor in the freezer and the bearings in the toaster oven (every house should have one of these) to help everything slide on easier. I still need to get a couple more bearings for the arbor when I pick up the other pulley, but progress is being made.

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