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Forum topic by dpwalker posted 08-17-2011 01:09 AM 4960 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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dpwalker

265 posts in 1522 days


08-17-2011 01:09 AM

I am still looking to upgrade my ratty Craftsman cheapo TS. I have narrowed my choices down to the Rigid 4510 & the Bosch 4100-09. I am leaning toward the Bosch.

What worries me is lately ( within the last month or so) I have seen 3 Bosch 4100-09 on Craiglist. All 3 said the same thing- “new motor”. I am wondering if the motor has a manufacturing defect or if there was a shipment of these saws locally with bad motors. What I’m wondering is if this is a common problem.

To anyone who owns this saw my question is- have you had any problems with the motor?
Thanks Dean

-- You have not really lived until you do something for someone who can never repay you.


19 replies so far

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knotscott

5517 posts in 2066 days


#1 posted 08-17-2011 02:50 AM

Any chance that the CL listing was the same saw from the same person?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View jerkylips's profile

jerkylips

233 posts in 1261 days


#2 posted 08-17-2011 02:51 AM

when I started looking for a saw I gave both of those a good look, but based in large part on advice I got here, I went a different direction. The question I was asked a lot was, “do you NEED it to be portable?” I thought it would be handy, just in case, but as I learned the tradeoffs for that portability & thought about how much I’d actually take the saw with me, I decided to get a bigger, contractor-style saw. Both of those saws have universal motors, which are louder & tend to burn out quicker. Not to say it WILL happen, but I think it’s fair to say that it’s more likely in that type of motor. If you do want/need that portability & are concerned about the motor, you may want to consider the Ridgid. They have the LSA – basically a lifetime warranty for the original owner. It’s insurance in case something does happen.

I ended up with a Ridgid 3660. I got it used, off craigslist, for $300. The guy literally cut a few boards with it & never used it again. If you’re looking to stay under $600 or so (from what I remember, that’s the ballpark of those two saws) you can probably find a lot nicer unit if you consider used..

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Loren

7739 posts in 2338 days


#3 posted 08-17-2011 02:54 AM

Unless you need to move your saw around a lot, as in pro work,
skip the plastic saws and get a used contractor saw. Money
better spent for woodworking in the shop.

Those saws serve a purpose to be sure – they are mostly useful
for jobsite ripping with a vestigal ability to crosscut small boards
thrown in.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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dpwalker

265 posts in 1522 days


#4 posted 08-17-2011 07:07 AM

My “shop” is an 8X10 backyard shed. I would love a cabinet saw. Just don’t have the room for it.

knotscott – The ads are from separate areas within 100 miles of my home. So I am wondering about the stability of the motor.

-- You have not really lived until you do something for someone who can never repay you.

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knotscott

5517 posts in 2066 days


#5 posted 08-17-2011 11:24 AM

I don’t own a Bosch saw, and don’t know much about the history of their saw motors, but Bosch tends to build pretty good tools in general, and they sell a lot of them. Just thinking out loud after an 11-1/2 night shift…I’d hazard a guess that a fair number of universal saw motors that burn out are due to long runs of undersized extension cords that are plugged into overtaxed circuits, and/or get run off a generator that’s poorly regulated. Most folks with a permanent shop take care to have the proper circuits installed…much harder to do on a jobsite. It would surprise me if the Bosch saws have more inherent motor failures than others due to something the Bosch did.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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SSMDad

395 posts in 1287 days


#6 posted 08-17-2011 12:55 PM

I own the Bosch 4100 and have never had an issue with the motor or anything else. It’s a great saw with smooth movements. I’m not a contractor but my shop is a tiny shed and I usually move it out into the yard when I’m cutting so portability, even just this little, is a bonus. All in all I’m pleased with it. Never used the Rigid saw but have a few of their other tools and have nothing but good things to say about them. Either way I think you’d be happy.

Loren, the 4100 IS a contractor saw and not all of us have the space, money, or an understanding wife to be able to get something with more metal that takes up precious sq. footage. It also does a helluva lot more than just ripping and some crosscutting.

Good luck!

-- Chris ~~Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

895 posts in 2304 days


#7 posted 08-17-2011 02:31 PM

I feel the same way about this that I do most new power tools. They are made… poorly.

This saw has a universal motor on it. They are much cheaper to make and take less copper and iron than traditional motor designs. But there are losses associated with the brushes and minimal motor design so you never get as much power “at the blade”. Add to that the recent propensity for manufacturers to vastly overrate motor horsepower and you get a way underpowered saw.

A little quick googling shows that there are other problems with the motor in this series of saw. The motor is not sealed – you need continuous air-flow in this underbuilt motor to get the heat out – but neither are the bearings! A sawdust generator with unsealed bearings? In addition, the end-bells of the motor are plastic. A seized or dry bearing ends up melting the end-bell. I suspect these are the reasons for so many of these with replaced motors. And maybe the reason so many end up on CL – the motor replacement costs are a significant portion of the cost of a brand-new saw.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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knotscott

5517 posts in 2066 days


#8 posted 08-17-2011 04:43 PM

”...the 4100 IS a contractor saw…”

Chris – Sometimes the nomenclature given to these table saws is confusing, partly because the names are not overly intuitive. I think most would classify your Bosch as a portable jobsite saw, even though “contractor saw” would seem logical, because it’s the what most contractors use on site nowadays (if they use a TS). The term “contractor saw” was originally dubbed over 60 years ago for the full size cast iron table saws with the belt drive induction motors hanging out the back. Initially they were the only alternative to a full blown cabinet saw before the modern portable jobsite saws were invented….the contractor saws were lighter and easier to move than cabinet saws, could run on standard residential power, and became very popular with contractors who would set up a temporary shop on site. These days, we largely consider those to be stationary saws and use them in dedicated shops, but the original name is difficult to shed.

Choosing the Right Table Saw for Your Shop (Rockler article)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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NBeener

4806 posts in 1864 days


#9 posted 08-17-2011 06:59 PM

My 4100 has been absolutely flawless, and 100% reliable.

If you’re convinced that this is the right category of saw for you, I don’t think you can go wrong.

Just … understand that … it is what it is, and it ain’t what it ain’t.

But within those limits, it’s a heck of a saw.

-- -- Neil

View jerkylips's profile

jerkylips

233 posts in 1261 days


#10 posted 08-17-2011 09:48 PM

I’ve been thinking about this. I think that either of the two saws you mentioned, when being used (up on a stand, table extensions out, etc.), are nearly as big as a “contractor” saw. The difference is mainly in when it’s being stored. Does that sound fair? 8×10 is definitely small, but I don’t know that it would be out of the question to have a bigger saw. Mine (the Ridgid 3660) has a herc-u-lift, so it’s very easy to wheel it out of the way, up against a wall, etc. I’d be surprised if you couldn’t come up with some method of storage to get stuff up off the floor & make some room in the corner for a bigger saw.

View ferstler's profile

ferstler

333 posts in 2210 days


#11 posted 08-18-2011 12:23 AM

A good jobsite saw can do good work, although there is no doubt that a bigger, heavier saw has its advantages.

If you are going to be doing a lot of cutting (especially hardwoods) and you have the space, they I would opt for a contractor’s type saw (or even a hybrid) with a wheeled carriage that allows it to be pushed off to the side sometimes when not being used.

On the other hand, if you are not going to be doing a huge amount of cutting and are pressed for space (I fit into this category), then a jobsite saw might be just the ticket.

The Bosch 4100 and the Ridgid 4510 are both good saws (I own the Ridgid and have modified it with a rear extension bar assembly to improve the outfeed and have written about the saw on this site), and those who downgrade such items because of supposed motor weaknesses (a thin-kerf blade will take care of that) or potential chassis mis-alignments or lack of structural integrity are perhaps either (1) trying to justify the pile of money they spent on an overkill saw and/or (2) not familiar with the quality and durability of those two so-called “plastic-framed,” and “plastic-case-motor” machines.

They are not table-top toys but are serious saws that can cut well enough (assuming you use a premium blade) to build good furniture.

Howard Ferstler

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ShaneA

5352 posts in 1289 days


#12 posted 08-18-2011 12:34 AM

If at all possible hold out for the contractor saw Loren and Knottscott reference. If there is any way to wheel it out of the shed, that wouldbe the way to go. Seroius bang for your buck on a CL contractor saw. I bet you could get a used ridgid or delta saw plus a decent 6” jointer for the same amount the upper end bench saws cost. In my opinion, way more value and quality, to be had by trying to go the contractor route, if you can make it work from a space standpoint. Good luck.

View SSMDad's profile

SSMDad

395 posts in 1287 days


#13 posted 08-18-2011 01:27 AM

I for one appreciate the input from everyone. As far as weaknesses go I’m sure it has some but I don’t know anything that’s perfect. I need the space so I just fold it vertical when not in use and wheel it out to the lawn when I’m doing something large. I use a Forrest Woodworker II blade and have never had an issue with it not being able to cut something. Just recently I did a couple 45 deg. cuts of african mahagony and it went right through them.

If I had the space and money, sure I’d upgrade to a Delta, Jet, or Powermatic saw (not interested in the sawstop saws) but I don’t have either so until I do, I’ll settle for what I have.

Kind of reminds me of the story of the little boy who was playing with an old ragged stuffed animal and couldn’t be happier, until someone else came around and told him how he shouldn’t be happy playing with a toy whose stuffing was coming out and missing an eye.

-- Chris ~~Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

View dpwalker's profile

dpwalker

265 posts in 1522 days


#14 posted 08-18-2011 05:13 AM

I thank everyone who has responded. Yes space is a major consideration, as the shed I mentioned is not a dedicated “shop”. My tools share that space with lawn equipment & other misc. species of junk : ) So being able to store it flat is a plus. The question isn’t if I should get a portable saw, but which portable saw to buy.

Oddly enough my local HD still has the Ridgid 4512 & 4510 at the same price of $499. So price is not a deterrent there, just space.

Neil & Chris, Glad to hear that you have not experienced the motor issues that are described in the Craglists ads I’ve seen. Maybe it was a local issue or as knotscott suggested undersized extension cords.

I’m still on the fence as far as which saw to buy. The Ridgid has the lifetime service agreement but the Bosch seems to be the sturdier of the two. The Bosch is $100 higher than the Ridgid but I do have a 10% off coupon & a little left on a gift card that will bring the prices to within $10 or so. So I am still leaning towards the Bosch. Thanks a bunch every one.
Dean

-- You have not really lived until you do something for someone who can never repay you.

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Everett1

208 posts in 1224 days


#15 posted 08-18-2011 01:39 PM

I have and use the Bosch and have been into woodworking about a year

I love it for what it is. I bought it based on a review in a Wood magazine article (google wood magazine contractor saw review). The Bosch won top honors for the category

The Only prob I’ve had is the fence needs to be checked for squareness a little more than a sturdy cabinet sawfence probably and when cutting two inch thick hardwoods it will burn the wood sometimes but it always makes it through

I have only a small one car garage so I needed the portability for now

I think it’s a great saw personally

-- Ev in Framingham, MA

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