Urban Myth: Home Depot Policy

I hope this isn’t true. Very wasteful.

-- Happy Ripping!!!

As it was explained to me once, the example used to explain the policy was a brand new thickness planer, the customer bought it, stole the blades out of it and put in his old ones before returning it. It was sold to another customer, and it threw shards of the loosened blades everywhere when first powered up. There’s undoubtedly a lawsuit or 2 in there as well.

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

The premise is absolutely true.
The cost of refurbishing goods today, given the high cost of transportation, precludes the practice.
Most responsible merchandisers work out some sort of agreement with the suppliers to address this.
One of the methods is destruction of returns.
The primary reason for this is to prevent losses from deliberate damage that creates a bargaining chip for the purchaser and to avoid potential liability should things not work out as planned.

I believe we discussed this from another perspective in and earlier thread where the time between purchase and return of goods precluded any refund for the vendor.
The vendor in turn had to limit the return time to protect his profit.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

This is not a good way to buy tools. I don’t care how cheap they are. Retail stores are constantly dealing with the “shrink” problem, goods that are received, but do not show up in inventory. I’m not saying that this is the case here, but in general, employee theft is a serious problem. Pilfered goods make their way into garage sales, flea markets, pawn shops, and are even returned for refund.

Don’t even take a chance at being an accessory. If a deal looks too good to be true – pass it by.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

I went around the back of a Farm Supply business and on top of the dumpster was, what looked like a brand new trailer and gasoline powered sprayer sitting on top of the pile.

It was not safe for me to climb up there and try to get it down, so i don’t own one, but it sure looked that way to me.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Very interesting!

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I don’t know, but the HD stores around here often have lots of packages that have obviously been opened and are taped up and back on the shelf. I wanted to upgrade to a better stud-finder the other day, and there were four of the model I wanted on the shelf. Unfortunately all four had been cut open and taped up again, so I didn’t buy one.

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

My local HD has lots of opened (and re-taped) packages. I returned a Ridgid 2400 table saw (out of box) to buy the 3650 when it was on killer sale last month. I saw my old 2400 parked in the aisle as a display (but I’m sure it would have been for sale if need be). I cannot believe that stuff just gets tossed.

-- - mark

Having been in retail for 37 years I can tell you that a lot of returns are destroyed. A lot of vendors give a defective allowance as part of their agreement with the retailer. Some returned items end up at Goodwill stores, some in other salvage stores, a lot end up destroyed. The defective agreement usually states that if an item is to be destroyed it must be crushed or put in a totally inoperable condition. If a HD shipping/receiving employee was getting items out of the dumpster they were in all likelihood breaking company policy. As unbelieveable as it may seem even paperback books are destroyed – if they are pulled from the racks the cover is stripped off and the books is compacted or baled.

-- Genius is immediate, but talent takes time.

man…when summer hits…i may be crawling in some dumpsters…

-- Matt, Napa, CA: Lj's...I love logging on--I feel so young after being around teenagers all day!

I’m a Dumpster Diver and I’m OK….

Lee

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

i find it hard to believe. store thieves throw items in the dumpster to pick up later.. harder to get caught like this. Beware of what looks free.. normally it is you buying what was purchased with an employee 5 finger discount.

-- making sawdust....

I work at a used tool store (three blocks from a Home Depot) and we hear all kinds of stories about this kind of thing. I am very interested to know weather this is true or not as well. I will try to ask some people I know.

-- Dust collectors suck.

Thanks for the excellent replies! I think it is a bit debatable, whether to consider a retrieved dumpster item as stolen property. At no point would I have purchased an item if I had an inkling that it was HOT Hey, this person was a Mason, for heaven’s sakes!. Also, in my neck of the woods there are plenty of people who haphazardly rip open a package (for whatever reason) and leave it for employees to tape up and place back on the retail shelf With these variables aside, I still strongly believe that the policy of scrapping all returns truly does exist. Sooner or later we’ll get the lowdown, one of us jocks must either be a Home Depot employee, or a “Mythbuster”. I’m willing to bet that you cannot get within 100 feet of their dumpster, either.

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

The large stores used to give employees discounts on scratch and dent items as well. I had a part time job at HQ years ago and saw more than a few fellow employees intentionally damaging items for a discount. When I told my store manager, he told me it was going on long before I got hired and would probably continue long after I left.

(some years back I heard this from a friend who works at the “dump”).. a department store was clearing out its spring/summer stock and they cut every summer shoe and tossed it and they cut/damaged all their patio furniture umbrellas etc. so that people wouldn’t take them from the dump.

Yah, something really wrong with our sense of priorities (if we didn’t know that already) Profit over integrity and humanity.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

There comes a point with hard goods where the recovery of investment actually costs more than the original cost.
If the merchandise were given away all the merchant has done at that point is assured himslef that he will sell no more of these items until the saturated market has used up his gift(s).
If he advertises a limited selection of merchandise, he runs the very real risk of having the cost of advertiizng become greater than the sales of product. In addition, there is the disgruntled customer who will find a way to bring the product back later and demand replacement or refund futher complicating the quest to recover investment.
So rather than look at the retailler as a big bad meanie let’s try to understand how he earns his keep.

It’s a lot harder than it looks.

Because they are hard goods there seems to be an “intrisic value” to them. I
If they were perishables the declining value is more obvious to the consumer.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I understand the business side of it… perhaps there are people in another country who could benefit from some of the products.. or perhaps there is a process to recycle the materials rather than just dumping them.

there are people who go dumpster diving for food and get good quality products/produce—and then there are people starving down the street. Just something wrong with our whole disposable mentality.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

this is some what the truth i work for a company that has return. for the most part the tools are returned to the company buy ups. some companys have a field destroy rule this states throw away and crush. the rule is when a tool or anything is placed in the trash compactor you must turn the compactor on . not sure how hd handles the returns but the did have a fines placed on them two or three years ago for selling returned items after the companys gave the refunds on thing. i do not thing everything go’s it the trash

-- danny s "the first to lose are the first to give up"

I agree Deb.
It seems to be completely consumer driven a well.
What’s in the dumpster was originally built for the consumer who turned up their collective noses at it.

Not cheap enough, not packaged as new, obsolete in the consumers mind, scratched missing parts?

Check out the shipping costs from your place to another destination and you will quickly see that this poses a huge factor in moving disjointed and assorted merchandise to various places.
Now, package it up for shipping, make up a way bill send instructions with it and You have just bought somebody’s time at probably $25.00 and hour (gross) Now add in your business overhead.
Like I said it not as easy as it seems.

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Back in the late 70’s when I was in college, I worked in the hardware department at Sears. One of my duties was the disposition of returned power tools. I would size them up for degree of damage, and make a decision whether to ship them off for rebuilding, or junk them. The ones I junked, I would take back to the loading dock and smash to smithereens with a sledgehammer before throwing into the dumpster. The reason of course is so that no one would retrieve a defective tool from the dumpster and return it AGAIN.

I t WAS a great way to let off steam. <g>

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Thanks, Charlie and all those who responded!!
Going back to the original post, I’m sure my neighbor was the one in charge of destroying merchandise before putting it in the dumpster. Maybe he sought penance by rescuing perfectly good power tools and giving them another chance at life. Oh, and I think ALL Sears tools should be sledgehammered…right now!

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

I used to deliver to Home Depot, YES they toss things BUT not untill they were destroyed, Your yardsale neighbor is a thief, I asked about it and the recievers said cheaper to toss than ship back, and the company policy was DESTROY and Dispose of, they had strict rules about keeping that stuff.

-- MARK IN BOB, So. CAL

Mark,
If you are or were a truck driver, you must know that trucking terminals also have very closely guarded dumpsters. A friend of mine, who retired from Roadway a few years back, used to tell of enormously valuable merchandise thrown into the Roadway company dumpster, stuff that was unclaimed, insurance write-offs, and other stuff which HAD TO be put into their locked dumpster. New rototillers, large appliances, tools and hardware. Anyone caught pilfering would be fired, with little support from the Teamster’s local. I’d forgotten about this, and it sort of applies here.
As I look around my shop, all those ‘discount tools I owned have either been upgraded, or went into my own dumpster, BTW!!

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

Don’t a lot of the tools at Cummins Tools come back as reconditioned? I would figure since Ryobi and Rigid (the two main brands at Cummins) are both sold almost primarily at HD that there has to be some connection there.

-- Happy Ripping!!!

I can say when I work for waste management that we would get dumpsters in from stores such as sears, brand names and many others. These would be backed full up returns that they tossed out. I have brought home lawn mowers(ride on and walk behind) microwaves, tv’s tables even a few power tools. It is sad to see all this get sent to the scrap yard.

When I was remodeling my kitchen, I was shopping for a double wall oven. An acquaintance suggested I check out the Sears Outlet about 40 miles away. I found their top of the line wall oven with a list price of $1,700.00 give or take, marked at $500.00. After being assured by the store manager that the appliance was warrented to function properly, I purchased it. Why was it in the Outlet store? A piece of the trim kit was broken. Strangely enough, I was able to purchase this trim kit complete at www.sears.com for $27.00! Go figure.

Ed

-- Come on in, the beer is cold and the wood is dry. www.crookedlittletree.com

I worked as a stock boy at Sears in high school. Stored next to to compactor/dumpster was a sledge hammer. You wouldn’t believe all of the perfectly good merchandise we had to smash up before we tossed it in the dumpster. I was once asked to smash up a guitar so I asked if I could have it. My boss said we’ll have to sell it to you for 50.00. I said, ” but you’re just going to throw it out!?” She said “sorry, but thats policy. So I said forget it and proceded to do my best ‘The Who’ imitation. It’s insane.

-- Tony, Ohio

What a coincidence to have two ex-Sears-sledge-hammerers in the same forum.

It was a shame, all right, but I understood why we did it. Sears had a very liberal return policy in those days. If you threw something in the dumpster that was only slightly damaged or defective, it could be fished out and returned by someone without a receipt for a brand new one, or even a cash refund.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

i agree that this is wrong. my uncle works at home depot and he hates that they do this.

-- if you haven't already check out my blog http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/teenagewoodworker/blog/3961

Thank You, Teenage Woodworker!!!!!

Looks like pretty solid proof to me!
I suppose everyone would resist ever buying retail if discounted, less-than-perfect store stock was typically available.
Come to think of it, if one gas station was selling gas for $2 a gallon, why would anyone buy gas anywhere else? Gotta keep those prices right up there…

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

so then I’m left with the question: “What can “I” do to reduce the wasteful destruction of good merchandise?”

1. don’t buy it if I don’t need it
2. know what I want before I shop
3. check out the merchandise before purchasing
4. allow for superficial flaws or ask for a discount at the time of purchase.
5. and…?

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

and… Go dumpster diving!

-- Dust collectors suck.

If the system was any different, we’d be mortgaging our houses just to afford a table saw. Liberal return policies is what drives people into the marketplace. Volume, as a result, is what keeps the prices down.
If independent re-manufacturers developed a cottage industry repairing and reselling scrapped machines, with the support of the manufacturers, it just might work. But what the hey, you could just buy whole machines from China by the boatload, and slap a ‘Debbie’s Machine Sales’ sticker on them and make big money, compared to razor-thin profits gleaned from fixing scrapped ones. Then, if they broke or got returned, you too might see the logic of keeping the scrapped ones off the secondary market.

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

anybody know where I can get a dumpster truck and a contract to empty at HD, Low’s, & etc.?

-- woodsmith

I understand the issues re: resale etc… spending/buying/disposable society is what makes our economy flow at this point in time (sad, isn’t it????)
but my real concern is stuff that is going to the landfill and skipping the recycle step.
LumberJocks often re-purpose items. Our “returns” should/could also find a re-purpose life.

and what “I” can do—is keep my purchases from being part of those “return” dumps. “I” need to be a responsible buyer.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I’m having trouble picturing a dumpster with a 6” jointer or a 10” cabinet saw laying on top of garbage bags..

Many years ago I worked in the return control department of a large chain store. Some manufacturers would give you credit for returned items that they didn’t want back. Some had a strict disposal policy where we had to bring the item to the dumpster and someone from security would have to witness us destroying the item, then the security officer would sign the paperwork and the store would get a credit. Some company’s didn’t care what you did with the items…those would usually get snapped up by the managers/employees. The store would charge you like a dollar so they could say they sold it not gave it away. Got lots of great deals that way! Working in that department I had dibs on stuff before anyone else saw it….ah, those were the days!

-- Brad Nailor is just my handle..my Name is David, feel free to use it!

Has anyone who never worked at a Home Depot or other big box hardware/lumber store ever asked a current manager if this practice is the current one? May if people like us who realize it is a waste complain or even take our business elsewhere, then there would be a change of policy… That’s a lot of hope and faith that corporate decisions can be made by a small percentage of a company’s consumer base, but still…

-- Happy Ripping!!!

I have been dumpster diving a few times myself at wally world and a few other stores. We have never found anything of “great value”. I did get a nice fishing rod one time with a busted reel, also picked up three bags of yard fertilizer once, but not much more than that. Most of the stores now days do not have “open top” dumpsters, they are attached to the back of the store and only accesible from inside.

I did return a bosch palm router to sears a few weeks ago, the guy never opened the case to check the item….he put a green “reduced close out” sale sticker on it and threw it in the grab bin right there in front of me.

runngt

-- It seem's I just make scrap wood and saw dust most of the time !

I believe that unless something has a safety issue, Lowe’s puts discontinued, last-years-model, returned or damaged goods out on a clearance table. Where I live (North TX) it’s usually at least once per month. In the last 2 years I have purchased from the clearance table/area: Wet bar size Frigidaire refrigerator (normally $199) with a scratch in the side for $25.00, brand-new CST/Berger 24x Transit with tripod and elevation pole (normally $597) for $150.00, a PC 690 Dual Base Router Kit for $75.00 (it had never even been opened). On a Sunday about 5 months ago I stopped in around 10:00 a.m. to grab some wood for a fence project. As I usually do, I walked over to the clearance section. They had a DeWalt trim router (normally $149) missing the collet (I purchased collet for $4.19 from DeWalt) for $5.00, so I bought it. Around 1:00 pm. I had to go back for more pneumatic nails. Now they had a brand new Bosch Industrial Hammer Drill (normally $199) missing the chuck for $35.00, so I bought it. I asked the guy in the tool dept. what else they had that wasn’t out yet. They had a stack of brand new DeWalt Industrial Grinders (normally $109) that he asked me to make an offer on. I offered $15.00, he said okay so I bought 3 of them. He also had 6 Freud Router kits for $30.00 each. If I didn’t have 5 routers already I would have bought them too. I was in just this past Sunday and they had Construction calculators marked down to $12.97 from $49.99. I bought 6 of them. Not only do they make great gifts, if you have teenagers with algebra and geometry they do all these functions and fractions.

Another great site is www.woot.com. They sell only one item per day (often electronics). When it’s gone it’s gone. Shipping on anything is $5.00. Every once in a while they have a woot-off, where the item changes once per hour, or when it’s gone. About 3 weeks ago they had Straight Line Digital Tape Measures offered on Two for Tuesday. Lowe’s & HD had them for $19.99 each, Woot had them priced at 2 for $5.00. Guess what my brothers are all getting for their birthdays this year? Yup, you guessed it – electronic tape measures and construction calculators.

Keep your eyes open and look for these deals becuase they are out there.

-- NorthWoodsMan

NorthWoodsMan, you are either extremely lucky, or have too much time on your hands for bargain hunting. :-)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I’ve been going to woot for a while. They have some interesting stuff for sale sometimes.

-- Happy Ripping!!!

I like woot too. I live in Dallas area too, NWoodsman, never found steal like you are at Lowes.Which one do you shop at?

-- North Texas

I did try to send an email to Home Depot corporate offices, but from the homepage it’s just a runaround of links to surveys or redirects to FAQ. In other words, they do not encourage email contacts.

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

Sounds typical. I work with a lot of mortgage companies in my day job and you’d be surprised how hard it is to find a customer service number on some websites. Then once you get it, there is a the usual run around of menus before you get to either what you need or a person who can answer your question.

I know there has to be a lot of truth to this, but honestly it seems surreal. I understand the liability reasons why not to sell a tool that may be malfunctioning at some level, but the simple waste of something that is likely repairable… The argument about shipping it back to the maker seems flawed as well (not saying it isn’t true). Don’t the trucks and boats use fuel traveling back empty too? (Okay, maybe not as much.)

And, I’ll reiterate that it seems like some must be taken somewhere to be refurbished because I see Ryobi and Rigid (HD’s main tool lines) at Cummins tools about 66% of the price and with stickers all over them saying they have been rebuilt or refurbished. Not saying anyone is stretching the truth here, but I find it hard to believe that Home Depot in this specific case would destroy a table saw, throw it in the dumpster, and then pay a security guard to shoo away would-be dumpster divers all because the legs had a few scratches.

-- Happy Ripping!!!

sounds like phone support—I had some time on my hands once and used the voice mail system to get my answer (ha)... I spent 20 min (I timed it) and I kept getting directed to one number after another… I was laughing so hard by the end of the 20 min… then, I finally had enough of the game and when it said, “Please push 5, 6, or 7” I pushed 9.. it repeated the directions twice and then after I selected 9 again, it said, “It seems that you are having difficulties selecting the right number. A customer service representative will be with you in one moment.”

I’ve tried the “not an option” technique since then and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Charlie – I usually head to Lowe’s every Saturday morning to check it out. I live less than 10 minutes from 2 different Lowe’s. I can head out, grab a coffee, hit them both and be back home in 30 minutes.

TomK – Allen & East Plano. Allen has by far the best deals. Last summer I was purchasing a 5 piece 18v DeWalt combo kit. The sign said that the price had just been permanently reduced by $50.00, but the price listed was $150.00 off. I asked the guy working in the tool area about it and he shook his head and asked me if I wanted it becuase he had to give it to me for that price (it was a mistake). Of course I said yes. He walked up to the checkout with me so he could explain it to the cashier. The cashier rings it up and hands me a rebate slip. That week they were giving out your choice of another free 18v DeWalt tool with any 4 or 5 piece kit. So I got the free tool also. I am a very HAPPY Lowe’s customer for life!!!!

-- NorthWoodsMan

I want to put a bullet in this Home Depot rant.

Let’s look at the stats and figure out why they have a policy?

””””””Founded in 1978, in Atlanta, Georgia, The Home Depot is the world’s largest home improvement retailer currently operating over 2,000 stores, including Home Depot stores, EXPO Design Centers, and The Home Depot Landscape Supply stores in Canada, Puerto Rico, China and Mexico”””””**

O.K. it”s time for a little math… come on back here! <g>

2000 stores all sell one power drill a day for 7 days.
50 people return theirs for a variety of reasons.

O.K. here’s the quiz!
How many drills were sold?
Shhhh! (Answer 14,000.)

How many drills were returned?
Shhhh!(Answer 50)

Is there anybody still having a problem with the math here?

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

northwoodsman – those wouldn’t happen to be the construction master calculators IV, V or VI ? I am in the market as I have the IV which I use at work everyday then take home for shop work, but never remember to bring back to work ! I would be willing to drop you a $20 for one if you have an extra…..

runngt

-- It seem's I just make scrap wood and saw dust most of the time !

I’ll tell you what really gets my goat regarding Home Depot – and I’m sure many other retailers – that get stiffed by dishonest people. It’s when somebody buys a substantive tool, usually a power washer, use it for a couple of seasons (you can tell be looking at it) as probably part of their construction business – and then return it for a refund, taking advantage of their liberal return policy! Basically, a free rental! That really galls me. I BELIEVE since then they have changed their policy to discourage this, not sure.

Look, I return things to stores once in a while too, but for legitimate reasons – not trying to get a free rental.

I’ve also worked in retail, and seen good items thrown into the trash. I assume a lot of it is for tax purposes as well as safety – after seeing a perfectly good $400 comforter tossed because it has a small tear. Insane, all this waste! My wife works for Wegmans Food Markets, the best grocery store in the US, and they do a lot to cut down their waste, from modifying their ordering system to giving away day-old bread to shelters to giving away unsalable foods to pig farmers, at least they try!

-- -Be Blessed!, Patrick

so it’s not HD’s fault—it’s the consumer – the “I”

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Okay, so the stuff is too expensive to return to the manufacturer, and it cuts into profits to sell at a reduced rate. How about at least sending it to a scrap yard for recycling rather than sending it to a landfill? Scrap yards are paying over $200 a ton for steel now – 10 years ago it was like $40 a ton. The financial incentive added to the environmental responsibility should encourage some recycling here!

-- What exactly is "The Move" and who are you calling a "Quirky Jerk"? -- http://www.north40custom.com

Peter:
I can’t speak for the rest of the country but that is what happens here:

We have a huge recycling plant and the stuff is dropped on convevor belts and hand sorted then machine sorted then shipped to refiners.
We have depots for computers and paints etc for consumers to drop off and or trade.
Our retailers have private contractors that pick up and recycle their garbage.
Everything from paper to plastic.
We have a large scale composting unit in full operation here as well. It’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than 10 years ago and it keeps getting better.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Hold on there, Bob #2!!
You may indeed want to ‘put a bullet’ in this subject, but I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say. I brought up the subject of whether HD throws returns in the dumpster. With your hypothetical estimates, I’m not sure if you are saying whether HD’s return policy is a good thing or a bad thing.

-- If stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

hey howdy ok i make the vast magority or my income as a truck driver and my company has a contract with HD picking up returns and bring them to a coalating and sorting center i would go into more detail but givin the the high value of each truck load i wont tell who the companys involved in this are. but think about it how do these tool companys get factory referbs if box stores like HD are throwing all these tools away.

-- I buy tools so i can make more money,so ican buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tool, so I can work more

You are quite right poopiekat.
This thread has been hijacked to a certain extent.
You can count on me not to respond to it in the future.

Regards
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

That’s what I’ve been wondering, doyou.

-- Happy Ripping!!!

Poopiekat;
The Trucking Co I worked for had a sale every year and employees could go buy the stuff, the money went to Co picknicks and the sort.
A retail store has the theroy that it would be a NEW sale instead of giving it away or selling for cost, a trucking CO doesn’t lose a sale if it sells it.

PS, I haul BMW’s now, They don’t toss those in the trash!

-- MARK IN BOB, So. CAL