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groove and tongue bit, what to get?

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Forum topic by fiddlebanshee posted 10-03-2018 12:32 PM 389 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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fiddlebanshee

227 posts in 3093 days


10-03-2018 12:32 PM

I want to make flat panel doors for my big cabinet in the shop that I just made. Dimensions are 5’9” height and 32.5” wide doors, three of them on a bypass sliding closet door track with wheels at the top.

Two questions:
I see both two piece and one piece tongue and groove router bits. What is the best investment? I doubt that I would ever have to mill stock that is thicker than 3/4”, would the one bit suffice for that?

Second question on material selection for this. I am going to use 1×6 pine for the stiles and rails, and the question is what to use for the panel. I do not want to make these doors super heavy so I was thinking 1/4” mdf or hardboard, painted with blackboard paint so that I can make notes on them with chalk. With the panels going to be about 24” wide by 5.5’ long, would there be a concern about warping? My shop can be humid at times.

Alternatively, I could use 1/2” plywood, and route a 1/4” rabbet to fit in the groove. That would add weight and strength, and I am wondering if this would be worth it.

what’s your thoughts?

Thanks
Jo

-- As if I needed another hobby!


13 replies so far

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

4993 posts in 2498 days


#1 posted 10-03-2018 02:26 PM

I can’t understand your question, I don’t see why you would need a tongue a groove set to make a frame and panel door. Your idea of using 1/4” MDF for the panels is fine, I would however add a center rail on a panel that is 5 1/2’ long. You could do the whole thing on the table saw with a dado. Stub tenons would be the way to go here because the panel material is stable and you can glue the panel into the frame. This will make for a very strong door.

-- Bondo Gaposis

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fiddlebanshee

227 posts in 3093 days


#2 posted 10-03-2018 02:56 PM

I don’t have a table saw so I need to do this on the router. I get the loose stub tenon, that way I only need to cut grooves and not tongues. I may go with that for now, until I decide on the router bit.

Thanks for the heads-up for the center rail. That makes sense.

-- As if I needed another hobby!

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PPK

1154 posts in 957 days


#3 posted 10-04-2018 03:33 PM

I think perhaps you’re referencing a cope and stick bit set, which is also known as a rail and style bit set. < These are used to making cabinet doors or other doors with panels. Tongue and groove is usually for siding or making some sort of paneling that joins together in parallel.

Anyway, I’ve used a lot of the Freud brand sets. They’re quite decent. Yonico also makes some pretty budget friendly versions, but their quality is obviously lower. If you only plan to use occasionally, I’ve found Yonico to be a fine brand.

Freud set:
https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Premier-Adjustable-Shaker-99-762/dp/B0062I1JGI

Yonico Set:
https://www.amazon.com/Yonico-12350-Raised-Cabinet-Router/dp/B00KZM0NVE

These are just a couple examples. There are many different profiles to choose from.

I’d steer away from using too heavy a panel. 1/4” mdf is fine. As Bondo suggested, do use a center rail. The warping will come from your frame material, not your MDF panel, so choose good 1×6 material.

You CAN do this whole operation with one cheap 1/4” slot cutter router bit if this is a one-off, and you’re fine with spending time adjusting the bit for the different cuts…

https://www.amazon.com/Yonico-14911q-4-Inch-Bearing-Cutter/dp/B078HRRKMS/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1538667152&sr=1-6&keywords=1%2F4%22+slot+bit

-- Pete

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PPK

1154 posts in 957 days


#4 posted 10-04-2018 03:36 PM

Safety note: Always make sure that the shank of the router bit is inserted into the collet at least to the “min. insertion” line, and tightened down well. I have had a router bit come flying out at me, and was lucky that it did not do any damage to me.

-- Pete

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

3092 posts in 1628 days


#5 posted 10-04-2018 04:03 PM

Agree re: a center rail.

Disagree re: stub tenon. OK on a cabinet door, but not on a door this big. I will probably be ok especially if you glue the panel in. Point still remains—a 2” pinned tenon is far superior to a stub tenon.

All you need is a rabetting bit to cut the groove.

The 2” tenon can easily be done by hand, as well as the mortise.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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fiddlebanshee

227 posts in 3093 days


#6 posted 10-04-2018 04:28 PM

Thanks all for the replies. I have decided on this one from whiteside.

I like the fact that you can leave the bit in and adjust the height for the groove, versus the tongue.

On the construction, yes a rail is in the plans now. I am not very concerned with the strength of the joint itself. It is a sliding cabinet door, there will be very little stress on the frame joints and I think if I glue the whole thing together with the tongues at 3/8” it will be plenty strong, especially with the thinner panel.

This is a picture of the cabinet it will go on.

The black surface is going to be blackboard paint so that I can write on it.
There are three doors riding in one bypass track with wheels at the top. The one in the middle is in the back track, the other two are in the front.
Here’s a picture of what I designed in sketchup.

-- As if I needed another hobby!

View PPK's profile

PPK

1154 posts in 957 days


#7 posted 10-04-2018 06:07 PM

Hey sweet cabinet! I like the sliding doors, and the blackboard paint is a great idea too!!

-- Pete

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

442 posts in 2117 days


#8 posted 10-04-2018 06:14 PM

If you have a router table, you can probably do the entire project with a 1/4” bit. Cut the groves, and the tenons.

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fiddlebanshee

227 posts in 3093 days


#9 posted 10-04-2018 06:21 PM

I tried the 1/4” bit option with varying success so I hope with this whiteside bit setup would be a bit more foolproof, plus it is faster because it cuts the tenons (or tongue) in one pass.

-- As if I needed another hobby!

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PPK

1154 posts in 957 days


#10 posted 10-05-2018 02:24 PM

That’s an interesting idea. So you just flip the wood over to make the rails vs the stiles?

Whiteside is a great brand.

-- Pete

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fiddlebanshee

227 posts in 3093 days


#11 posted 10-06-2018 01:08 AM

@PPK You first set the bit so that both cutters engage the wood to create the tongue,
Then you lower the bit in the router table, so that only the upper cutter engages the wood in the middle to create the groove.

here’s a youtube with this bit.

Maybe I misunderstood your question. For the rail/stile application, I routed tongues on the endgrain of the rails, and created grooves on the long grain of the stiles and rails to recieve the flat panel, as well as the tongue of the rails. I have not glued it together, and while it still has a little bit of wobble/flex unglued, I think it’ll be fine once the panel and the rails are glued securely into the stiles. I may reinforce the joint with some brads.

The other thing that I realized is that the plywood panels are undersized so they are too small for the grooves. I will make a little quarter round to secure the panel so that they glue will hold it in place and there is no movement.

Unfortunately the HD didn’t have 1/4” mdf, so I went with 1/4 birch plywood instead. The blackboard paint is drying as I type this, and tomorrow, I will give that one more coat before I assemble and glue the whole thing together.

-- As if I needed another hobby!

View SFP's profile

SFP

31 posts in 1403 days


#12 posted 10-11-2018 04:40 PM

Sets are so…. much easier to deal with! Once you have your settings, you can go to other operations and come back to the tongue and groove and not have to set anything up. Wide boards can be difficult to machine vertically as well.

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

4729 posts in 860 days


#13 posted 10-11-2018 07:40 PM

whiteside makes best bits IMO :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

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