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Mahogany end grain to grain patterns??

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Forum topic by PimentelEng posted 09-24-2018 12:40 AM 402 views 0 times favorited 7 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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PimentelEng

22 posts in 29 days


09-24-2018 12:40 AM

So im a pattern maker used to working with MDF. I decided to switch to Mahogany for its stability but been told that gluing end grain to grain is not a wise thing. I will be making a box and shaping the corners and edges to look more like a valve cover. At leadt thats what I have planned unles laminating pieces to the desired height would be a better option,but it would be to heavy and unnecassary wood imo. Im looking to make a valve cover for the early Buick nailhead v8. Once finished I plan to shoot it with automotive primer and gloss paint. I do plan to add reinforcent to the inside. It will start off as a hollow cube.

Im looking for help since im out of funds and must work with the Mahogany I bought. Maybe swtching from tightbond 3 to something stronger will help??


7 replies so far

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

1410 posts in 723 days


#1 posted 09-24-2018 08:37 PM

Endgrain absorbs glue, plain and simple. So using endgrain and gluing it to other endgrain, or even face grain give less adhesion. You can “glue size” the endgrain. Thin glue to a more paste like mix, and brush/apply it to just the endgrain. Allow it to absorb. The very first seconds will tell you a lot. If it goes zip, and it’s gone, you will need to add more, maybe a lot more. What you are doing is pre-filling the woods pores with this glue filling, so when you glue for real, your glue will stay surface to surface an be able to work better.

Maybe I am not “seeing” your project, but the visual you have there (thinking of it as wood) appears like it is long strips of wood, some showing face grain, and to me anyhow some showing edge grain. Going for length all the endgrain you will see is going to be at the ends of the heads. Paint is one of the best tricks for endgrain, as once sanded as smooth as you can get it, paint fills the voids, and it virtually disappears. Unless I am missing something you don’t have an endgrain (grain only at the ENDS of a board) problem.

Try a mock up with pine or scrap, and see if the grain at the end of the board comes into play anywhere except the ends of the heads….

Your MDF will have endgrain on both the ends and the sides, because it is manufactured as many thin papers glued to a mass. The only non open grain look is top or bottom of the sheet, maybe that is your confusion?

-- Think safe, be safe

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

6298 posts in 1287 days


#2 posted 09-24-2018 08:53 PM

SteveN covered it pretty well. Endgrain absorbs the glue so it just don’t stick… One thing that will help if you must do endgrain glue ups, is to miter the joint so it’s not perpendicular to the long grain direction. If you miter it at 45 degrees, then you have 1/2 end grain and 1/2 side grain or face grain which will give you a better joint. You can also add dowels or biscuits to endgrain joints to improve the glue surface area.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1379 posts in 311 days


#3 posted 09-25-2018 12:53 PM

that is a pretty ambitious project.
like on your other post with PatternGuy, you need to have two matching plugs
if you are going to cast it hollow in metal (probably aluminum?).
lots and lots of carving and sculpting to have the two correct matching pieces.
I am very familiar with the process and you have quite a bit of work to do to both pieces
to have a workable product.
how thick is your mahogany ??? you can use countersunk screws and epoxy to assemble the boxes.
just try to put the screws where you will not be carving, fill the countersunk holes with Bondo.
any 5 or 30 minute epoxy will work for your project.
[also, it would be wise to check with the foundry that will do your casting to see what percentage
of shrinkage they estimate in your casting and make your adjustments accordingly].

.

-- I started out with nothing in life ~ and still have most of it left.

View PimentelEng's profile

PimentelEng

22 posts in 29 days


#4 posted 09-25-2018 05:25 PM

Im the pattern maker and foundryman. As a metal worker making my own furnace and tools was easy. Just had to buy the the rest such as sand,binder,clay,parting dust,flux..etc. im all set up. Im in a tought spot health wise so im left with no choice but to learnthe trade. Ill be 38 tomorrow,i want to have a steady income again when i reach 40. Im familiar with match plates and have 4 pattetns made that way waiting to be casted. That part is easy,where im having trouble is jointing the wood and making it durable after carving. I have my table saw set with jigs for milling and block joints.


that is a pretty ambitious project.
like on your other post with PatternGuy, you need to have two matching plugs
if you are going to cast it hollow in metal (probably aluminum?).
lots and lots of carving and sculpting to have the two correct matching pieces.
I am very familiar with the process and you have quite a bit of work to do to both pieces
to have a workable product.
how thick is your mahogany ??? you can use countersunk screws and epoxy to assemble the boxes.
just try to put the screws where you will not be carving, fill the countersunk holes with Bondo.
any 5 or 30 minute epoxy will work for your project.
[also, it would be wise to check with the foundry that will do your casting to see what percentage
of shrinkage they estimate in your casting and make your adjustments accordingly].

.

- John Smith


View PimentelEng's profile

PimentelEng

22 posts in 29 days


#5 posted 09-25-2018 05:31 PM

My mahogony is 3/4 thick.

Im likely to go the match plate route. Lucky for me some of the people that will buy the valve cover set are willing to pay asking price for the set.

Thats my table saw. 1950s Crafstsman I restored. Calibrating the saw assembly was the hard part..its now so smooth you can barely hear it running. I just need to wax the top. I did some modifications to the fence so it now runs and stops even at both ends. Its a terrible design stock.ill eventualy upgrade to a fancy one

View PimentelEng's profile

PimentelEng

22 posts in 29 days


#6 posted 09-25-2018 05:35 PM

Would you recomend epoxy glue over Tightbond 3?


Im the pattern maker and foundryman. As a metal worker making my own furnace and tools was easy. Just had to buy the the rest such as sand,binder,clay,parting dust,flux..etc. im all set up. Im in a tought spot health wise so im left with no choice but to learnthe trade. Ill be 38 tomorrow,i want to have a steady income again when i reach 40. Im familiar with match plates and have 4 pattetns made that way waiting to be casted. That part is easy,where im having trouble is jointing the wood and making it durable after carving. I have my table saw set with jigs for milling and block joints.

that is a pretty ambitious project.
like on your other post with PatternGuy, you need to have two matching plugs
if you are going to cast it hollow in metal (probably aluminum?).
lots and lots of carving and sculpting to have the two correct matching pieces.
I am very familiar with the process and you have quite a bit of work to do to both pieces
to have a workable product.
how thick is your mahogany ??? you can use countersunk screws and epoxy to assemble the boxes.
just try to put the screws where you will not be carving, fill the countersunk holes with Bondo.
any 5 or 30 minute epoxy will work for your project.
[also, it would be wise to check with the foundry that will do your casting to see what percentage
of shrinkage they estimate in your casting and make your adjustments accordingly].

.

- John Smith

- PimentelEng


View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1379 posts in 311 days


#7 posted 09-25-2018 06:37 PM

for me, yes, I would use G/flex 650 epoxy and wood dowels..
I don’t know what the other, more experienced craftsmen would use.
sounds like you already have everything under control.

.

.

-- I started out with nothing in life ~ and still have most of it left.

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