LumberJocks

Update: Glueing joinery without clamps (failure photo)

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by shipwright posted 09-19-2018 01:56 PM 2086 views 2 times favorited 49 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8166 posts in 2998 days


09-19-2018 01:56 PM

A recent thread discussed at length the various ins and outs of clamping pressure but I saw no mention of clampless glueing. It has been practised for centuries and is still in common use by many fine furniture craftsmen.
Here is a link to one such application
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21sL6XLM02Y&feature=share

This is a photo I took a while back of failures in rub joints made with hot hide glue.
One is edge to face and the other face to face,

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/


49 replies so far

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10321 posts in 4253 days


#1 posted 09-19-2018 02:16 PM

Very impressive and interesting…

I also remember your posts on using Hide glue…

Thank you for this Link… Very good!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View Dutchy's profile

Dutchy

3147 posts in 2369 days


#2 posted 09-19-2018 02:37 PM

Thanks for the link.

-- https://dutchypatterns.com/

View JADobson's profile

JADobson

1286 posts in 2311 days


#3 posted 09-19-2018 02:56 PM

Bought some veneers last week, building a veneer hammer this week and then going to teach myself to use hide glue next week to hammer veneer. Wish me luck.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

View madts's profile

madts

1873 posts in 2540 days


#4 posted 09-19-2018 04:02 PM

Cool stuff.

—Madts.

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2892 posts in 1848 days


#5 posted 09-19-2018 06:10 PM

Paul, I’ve recently had a conversation with my friend Ernie Searing about this, and we both agree that not only is clamping unnecessary, but that in most cases, even with an edge joint, that devices such as biscuits, dowels, dominos, etc. are also superfluous, with the exception of gluing end grain together such as in a miter joint, but even in that situation, the case could be made that if you sealed the end grain with a thin layer of glue and let it dry, that the second application would bind it sufficiently

Coincidentally I’ve switched over to using hide glue in most applications with the exception of joints that will be exposed to lots of moisture or high heat.

I find it to be as strong as the polyurethane glues to any reasonable point, IE, the wood will break before the joint will. It has the added advantage of being reversible for repairs, it’s more forgiving in terms of slower set up time before grabbing.

Thanks for the post, most interesting!

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://www.geraldlhunsucker.com/

View Schwieb's profile

Schwieb

1872 posts in 3662 days


#6 posted 09-19-2018 07:34 PM

Interesting for sure. Old habits are hard to break and It would be hard for me to not rely on clamps in some situations but I do see that it is possible to apply too much pressure. I have used hide glue some but again just reaching for a bottle of Titebond for the convenience and expedience is hard to get away from.

On a side note, awhile back I began to notice this really nasty smell in the shop and realized that I had left some hide glue in the pot and it went bad. That was fun to clean up.

-- Dr. Ken, Florida - Durch harte arbeit werden Träume wahr.

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

1052 posts in 3018 days


#7 posted 09-19-2018 08:14 PM

Thanks for the video. As I understand it, a rub joint is just as effective with PVA glue as it is with hide glue (although the immediate tack will probably be less).

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

2630 posts in 1588 days


#8 posted 09-19-2018 09:46 PM

I tried a rub joint on 2 piece at right angles when I first started experimenting with HHG a couple of years ago in preparation for a hammer veneering project. You can see the test joint in this blog. I stumbled upon the test piece in my scrap bin a couple months ago and tried to break the joint and even using a vice grip to get more leverage I still I could not get it to break. Pretty amazing stuff.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1142 posts in 1016 days


#9 posted 09-19-2018 10:14 PM

Double post.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1142 posts in 1016 days


#10 posted 09-19-2018 10:16 PM

The video would have been more worthwhile if the guy had waited for the glue to cure and then put the piece in a vise and broke it apart. Properly clamped PVA glue will not break at the joint. I don’t know about this demonstration. He could have done the same demo with hot melt glue and we all know how strong that is.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

574 posts in 690 days


#11 posted 09-19-2018 10:27 PM


The video would have been more worthwhile if the guy had waited for the glue to dry and then put the piece in a vise and broke it apart. Properly clamped PVA glue will not break at the joint. I don t know about this demonstration. He could have done the same demo with hot melt glue and we all know how strong that is.

- ArtMann

+1

In addition, the open time of hide is often times a real pain. I usually use aliphatic glue, but sometimes I need the open time you get with a PVA. I shudder to think about what I’d do if hide glue were the only option; probably give up woodworking.

View Woodwrecker's profile

Woodwrecker

4200 posts in 3776 days


#12 posted 09-19-2018 11:56 PM

Well, I’ve already bought the clamps, biscuits and everything else…lol
I have used hide glue and like it for it’s open time and having the ability to be released.
Thank you for the post. That guy has a pretty cool channel.

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

5121 posts in 913 days


#13 posted 09-20-2018 12:53 AM

I remember Brian doing this with regular glue I mean the sliding thing but cant remember what video it was :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View squazo's profile

squazo

111 posts in 1846 days


#14 posted 09-20-2018 12:56 AM

when I use construction adhesive I usually use it because I cannot clamp and I don’t want fasteners exposed, it works great with that stuff. I’ve had good results with wood glue as well.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8166 posts in 2998 days


#15 posted 09-20-2018 05:15 AM



The video would have been more worthwhile if the guy had waited for the glue to cure and then put the piece in a vise and broke it apart. Properly clamped PVA glue will not break at the joint. I don t know about this demonstration. He could have done the same demo with hot melt glue and we all know how strong that is.

- ArtMann


It would not have broken on the glue line. Trust me. This joint has held furniture together to this day that was built for Louis XIV. I know of no 250 + year trials of pieces done with pva glue and clamps. This is not to say that the pva won’t last 200 years, only that HHG can.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

showing 1 through 15 of 49 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com