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Forum topic by mIps posted 09-10-2018 09:23 PM 765 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mIps

198 posts in 2197 days


09-10-2018 09:23 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question tablesaw

I’ve been working on a cabinet with drawers for a bit now and I’ve noticed something that I’m not sure what is going on. I noticed it while making the sides for drawers. here goes: I cut the side blanks over-sized(both length and width, trim one side with the other against the fence, then to final width with the first edge against the fence to get the sides parallel. Then I trim one and to get it square to the long side, flip the board end-over end and cut the other end to final length with a stop-block. In theory, the board SHOULD be square at this point but, what I’ve found is that ONE end is not square to the long face (the other is) and I cannot figure out how this is so. I could understand if I had a parallelogram or a trapezoid but ONE end out of square makes no sense to me.

Any help or tips appreciated. thanks.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.


17 replies so far

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Steve

628 posts in 724 days


#1 posted 09-10-2018 09:31 PM

is this a new problem with your tablesaw? is the blade parallel to the fence? and is the wood moving away from the fence at the end of the blade/cut?

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EdDantes

19 posts in 53 days


#2 posted 09-10-2018 09:42 PM

How are you cutting the short sides? Miter gauge? Crosscut sled? Is the side out of square always the one cut with the stop block?

If the sides are not cut in the exact same method (e.g. one with the stop block and one without) could be something where aligning it with the stop block is throwing something off.

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lumbering_on

317 posts in 632 days


#3 posted 09-10-2018 10:32 PM

How long is the square you are using? If you are only using a small square then the one corner could seem square as when it is really drifting by an amount too small for your square to see.

Try a test where you do the exact same cuts, but run the first cut side through a jointer first. Then use the square to measure the final corner. If it looks square this time then there’s your answer – i.e. it wasn’t a straight cut to begin with. Steve and EdDantes post would be a good place to see what’s causing it.

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Woodknack

12369 posts in 2522 days


#4 posted 09-10-2018 10:56 PM

No errors in procedure. Are you sweeping away the dust between cuts? Is there any slop in the miter gauge?

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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fuigb

511 posts in 3100 days


#5 posted 09-11-2018 12:05 AM

+1 to Ed. Something in the process isn’t consistent. Same tools/sleds should yield same results.

-- - Crud. Go tell your mother that I need a Band-aid.

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mIps

198 posts in 2197 days


#6 posted 09-11-2018 04:48 AM

Thanks for the replies! Steve – I dont know if its new or I just now noticed it. I have checked the blade to be parallel to the miter slots and the fence to be parallel to the miter slots as best as I am able to. First short end cut free and second with a stop block.

Ed – First short end cut free and second with a stop block using the miter gauge that I squared to the blade. Sadly, I only noticed this after I’d finished so I am not 100% sure if its the free cut end or the stop block end that’s off.

Lumbering – The square I checked with to square everything was a framing square. the square I used to check the ends was a 4” and the one one end is very obviously off. A good 1/8” over 4”. Sadly no working jointer.

Woodknack – Yes to the dust and no to the miter gauge.

Fuigb – I agree.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

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Woodknack

12369 posts in 2522 days


#7 posted 09-11-2018 06:39 AM

Might also check if the cuts are square to the face and if the bad cut is straight. The only time I’ve had this happen on one end, the stop block was flexing or moving during the cut.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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lumbering_on

317 posts in 632 days


#8 posted 09-11-2018 12:16 PM

An 1/8 of over 4”” wouldn’t be due to just having the first edge off a tiny amount.

I agree with Woodknack about the stop block, as it seems to be the only thing you did different between the first two cuts.

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mIps

198 posts in 2197 days


#9 posted 09-13-2018 01:13 PM

Yeah, I need to go through the process, numbering the cuts and checking as I go. Hopefully this weekend.

Thanks again.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

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ArtMann

1078 posts in 958 days


#10 posted 09-13-2018 02:13 PM

There is too much possibility for variation using the stock miter gauge for crosscuts on a table saw. Also, you should square the miter gauge to the miter slot, not the blade. If you will make and use a precision crosscut sled, you will never see that problem again.

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Rich

3648 posts in 731 days


#11 posted 09-13-2018 02:19 PM

Actually, regardless of whether it’s a miter gauge, sled, or even your chop saw, you should do the 5-cut method to set squareness.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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rwe2156

3088 posts in 1623 days


#12 posted 09-13-2018 03:22 PM

Always make your crosscut registering the same edge against the miter fence.

Are you using a splitter?

How long are the drawer sides and how far out of square are we talking about?

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Rich

3648 posts in 731 days


#13 posted 09-13-2018 03:34 PM


Always make your crosscut registering the same edge against the miter fence.

Are you using a splitter?

How long are the drawer sides and how far out of square are we talking about?

- rwe2156

If the long edges are parallel, it doesn’t matter which one you use for the cross cut. Also, he answered your how far question in post #6.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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mIps

198 posts in 2197 days


#14 posted 09-23-2018 10:46 PM

Thanks again for replies!
ArtMann – everything, table (miter slots) rip fence and miter gauge were all squared to the blade to the best of my abilities to do so. I agree with the crosscut sled. I need to put one together.

rwe2156 – not sure I follow. one long edge was cut to make it neat (the original cut was a little rough) and he second long edge was cut with the first against the rip fence. for the short-edge cross-cuts, I did register the same long edge against the miter gauge. Yes, using a riving knife. final size is 18” long by 4” wide and the the one end is off by about 1/8”.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

2495 posts in 1529 days


#15 posted 09-24-2018 12:24 PM

If it is the width that is off by 1/8th at one end, your problem is the rip cuts. It could be the fence is not parallel to the blade or you are doing something during the cut and it’s not staying flat against the fence. It could also be that your first cut to true up the sides is not resulting in a truly straight cut and you are winding up with a bow or some other irregularity. Lay a board on edge on your table saw and see if it rocks or you can see light under it somewhere along its length. If you don’t start with a straight edge (factory edge on PW or off of a jointer for example), unless your fence is long enough so that the board is in contact with the fence through the entire cut,( unlikely on most home or contractor saws and 18” boards) you will have to take special steps to get your first edge perfectly straight.

If the edges of the boards are truly straight and width of the board is consistent along its length you need to check your miter gauge: Use a square to mark a square line near one end of a board about 4” wide with a truly straight edge. It just needs to be long enough to cut it safely using the miter gauge. With your miter set at 90°, cut as close to the line as you can without removing the line. If you wind up removing part of the line or deviating from the line at the end of the cut, you need to adjust your miter gauge. Better yet make yourself a cross cut sled. Everyone should have an good CC sled.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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