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Forum topic by agallant posted 08-02-2011 02:39 PM 945 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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agallant

530 posts in 2346 days


08-02-2011 02:39 PM

So I have always had a CMS but have reserved it for non fine furniture things like quick cuts or cutting 2X4 to lenight. My last CMS died and I replaced it with the Rayobi 10inch sliding CMS (TSS101L). It is a great saw. Lately I have started to realise the value of the saw for furniture making but I have a few questions.

1. What blade should I be using to not get ripout (tooth count) I have a 40 in it now but I get some chips and if I use a 60 I burn the wood
2. What is the deal with 10 vs 12 inch? You rairly see a 12 inch table saw but you see 12 inch CMS all of the time, why is that?
3. Does anyone with a CMS still use a 45 jig or cross cut sled for their table saw?

Any insight would be appreciated.

-AG


11 replies so far

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Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 3281 days


#1 posted 08-02-2011 03:45 PM

AG, with respect to your questions:

(1) I am not sure what blades you are now using but I would suggest getting a quality blade with at least 80 teeth to eliminate the tear out and burning. I use Forrest’s Chopmaster in my saw and the blade has served me well for years.

(2) The largest difference between the 10 and 12 inch saws is the ability to cut wide crown. For most hobby work and most trim a 10 inch saw will work just fine.

(3) Yes. A table saw sled will largely replace a 10” CMS. I use my slider largely for cross cutting rough lumber that is too unwieldy on the table saw, for trim work, or cutting long boards that would be difficult to do on the table saw.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

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crank49

3980 posts in 2430 days


#2 posted 08-02-2011 03:55 PM

1. I use a 90 tooth, ground for cross cuts, in my 10” CMS. I’ve never had a burning problem with my CMS. Burning is usually the result of alignment issues or feeding too slow.

2. Ever try to cut a 4×4 with a 10” saw? No problem for a 12”. Same deal with some wide crown mold.

3. I still use my crosscut sled because my CMS is not a SCMS and I can only cut stuff less than 6” wide. Also, my shop is not finished and the miter saw is out in the garage. Hope to change this soon.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

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agallant

530 posts in 2346 days


#3 posted 08-02-2011 07:41 PM

So there is no real advantage per se to a 12 inch besides more cutting capacity?

View crank49's profile

crank49

3980 posts in 2430 days


#4 posted 08-02-2011 09:46 PM

The extra capacity will allow you to put a sacrificial board under and behind your workpiece to serve as zero clearance backers for really critical cuts.

And you get to spend nearly twice as much for blades.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3926 posts in 1953 days


#5 posted 08-02-2011 09:52 PM

The Forrest Chopmaster is a great blade, and another choice would be the Freud LU91, it would be a little less expensive. They both have high tooth count and a negative hook which makes for a very smooth cut.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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agallant

530 posts in 2346 days


#6 posted 08-02-2011 10:21 PM

I will try a better blade in it. Thanks for the advice. One thing that drives me nuts is that the label that marks the degrees is off. It has click spots at 11.25,22.5,45 which from what I have been able to measure are on but the tape is off and it drives me nuts.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7207 posts in 2835 days


#7 posted 08-02-2011 10:45 PM

For a slider, you’ll want a blade that has a low to negative hook angle….nothing much over + 5° or so. A Hi-ATB grind with a steep top bevel angle (30° to 40°) will have less tearout than any other grind if all else is equal….the steeper the bevel angle the lower the tearout tendencies will be, but with the downside of having shorter edge life than other grinds. A hobbyist can still get 1 to 2 years between sharpenings though. High tooth count and precision manufacturing are also key parameters that contribute to the quality of the cut….the higher the tooth count, the cleaner the cut will tend to be, but you’ll also get more heat and resistance….usually something in the 60T to 80T range is a happy medium. If the blade is sharp and clean you shouldn’t be getting burns in crosscuts with most material. A good standard ATB grind can also do an excellent job, and offers some compromise between cleanest cut and better edge life. There are also several good SCMS blades that combine the ATB grind with intermittent flat rakers. A triple chip grind (TCG) offers the most durable edge, but not necessarily the cleanest cut…however there are still very good examples that cut well.

Some of the best cutting examples of Hi -ATB blades are the Infinity 60T 010-060 or similar 60T Forrest WWI, Infinity 010-080 Ultrasmooth, Forrest Duraline, Freud LU80 (or LU79 TK), or CMT 210.080.10. They tend to start at ~ $60.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View rance's profile

rance

4245 posts in 2620 days


#8 posted 08-02-2011 11:37 PM

1. 60-80 tooth. Don’t be fooled into thinking you should use your TS blade in the CMS, they are two different geometries. I’ve not see 2x price in 12” blades, but once I started using backer boards, I no longer see the need to use hoity-toity blades. If you are getting burns, I suspect your blade is dull. Chipout should be corrected with a backer board, not more or better teeth. Tearout is caused by the wood fibers being unsupported. Faster cut = more tearout, rougher cut, & less burn. Slower cut = less tearout, smoother cut, & more likely to burn.

2. More capacity. I’d suggest a 12, particularly if you don’t get a slider. I also don’t suggest a slider, especially since you are moving to ‘fine woodworking’. I have un-popular opinions about overkill on a CMS, see Compound Miter Saw Features . I don’t suggest a double bevel either for most home owners.

3. A 45 sled on a TS is common even if you have a CMS.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3256 posts in 2135 days


#9 posted 08-03-2011 01:56 AM

The guys above finally got to what I think the secret of a good miter saw blade has to have. A negative hook angle is the thing to look for. I have a Freud and a Bosch blade (2 different saws) they work well. I like the Freud the best but it could be the saw that makes the difference. It is a 9 inch with an 80 tooth blade. the other is a 12 inch with a 90 tooth blade. I don’t get much burning.

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rance

4245 posts in 2620 days


#10 posted 08-03-2011 02:59 AM

2. One more point on capacity. If you really ‘need’ the extra capacity of a slider then go for it, but for ALL of the wide cuts I make on a slider, they are ROUGH cuts. So effectively, that $200 precision functionality could easilly be replaced by (don’t laugh), a circular saw. Heck, I could even use a chainsaw. Caveat: The main reason I can get away with that is I build primarilly smaller items, boxes, knick knacks. I really think the sliders are less accurate over time.

Evaluate your real needs. Think about those cuts and how accurate you need those WIDE cuts. Heck, if I really needed accurate cuts on wide panels, then I’d probably use the TS with a sled anyway. Only YOU can evaluate what you really need and/or want.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

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agallant

530 posts in 2346 days


#11 posted 08-03-2011 03:39 AM

I will say that I like the capacity of the CMS. I tend to use large boards for things.

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