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Forum topic by Cammy posted 07-13-2018 08:37 PM 968 views 0 times favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


07-13-2018 08:37 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Hey guys need some advice please

I hope I’m posting this in the right topic

I have a karcher vacuum that turns itself on when a power tool is attached to it.

I was thinking about running a 50mm PVC pipe around the workshop with ball valves to isolate the tools.

Do I need to use a bigger hose as 95% of my tools have 50mm or smaller extraction ports the only tool that is bigger is the planer at 100mm.

Am I wasting my time with this system or is it worth a go

Cheers Cammy

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.


24 replies so far

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5545 posts in 2530 days


#1 posted 07-14-2018 01:40 AM

I have 2 1/2 inch PVC like pipe for my small system. It works okay, but I did buy blast gate valves for it not PCV ball valves. Been in use for 20 years and never really an issue. You can do better by going bigger and someone will probably post a good explanation on the pro’s and con’s.

My take is this, something is better than nothing and if you use it all the better.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1006 posts in 616 days


#2 posted 07-15-2018 01:25 AM

There is no simple answer to your question since it’s depends on the configuration of your shop, what tools you have, where they are located and the CFM they require to effectively collect dust/chips. Selecting the dust collector is actually the last step of the design process.

Start here: https://airhand.com/designing/

Good luck!

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

754 posts in 3442 days


#3 posted 07-15-2018 05:05 AM

Tungoil hit the most salient point. Optimizing duct size is a little of a knife edge. Go too big for the volume of a given fan and you lose the ability to keep the large chips in suspension and go too small and you increase the static pressure to the point your volume becomes too low to be useful.

I did this and found the Rigid shop vac I had just didn’t have the CFM to run my whole shop plumbed with 2.5” the volume just wasn’t high enough with the (relatively) high static pressure a whole shop system presented the fan with past about halfway WHEN you added a hose of any reasonable length now if you are just running say 15-20ft without a bunch of turns it would have worked. I tried initially with blast gates but they were too leaky for a low CFM system and the ball valves made a difference just not enough to satisfy me. I now have a Oneida Dust Cobra which I can’t say enough good things about but it does come with a healthy price tag.

I should note I was using a Dust Deputy and a Cleanstream HEPA filter with the shop vac, both of those added static pressure to the system.

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Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#4 posted 07-15-2018 06:28 AM

Thanks for the replies there is defintly a science involved when it comes to figuring this out on a large scale..

The little research I have done I read that the ribbed pipe reduces the air flow.

The shop vac I have actually sucks in the container so either there is an issue with the hose or it’s powerfully enough.

If you see my workshop post there is an empty unit to the left where I intend on storing the vacuum and making a box instead of the bucket for the cyclone to sit on this will allow me to do away with the bucket that has been sucked in so many times that it has permantly deformed the bucket. And increase the volume for the collecter.

The pipe will run up the wall to the roofthen spit 2 ways going to drill press and then along main beam with a few droppers with valves.

I only plan on installing maybe 5 to 7 meters of pipe with 3 or 4 points for tools and a sweep

Thanks again for the advice

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

94 posts in 954 days


#5 posted 07-15-2018 10:20 AM

I have split my DC into 2 separate systems. The 1st is a central vacuum through a dust deputy, that uses 2” (about 50mm) duct with blast gates. This handles my drill press, miter saw, router table, drum sander, oscillating sander hand held tools and shop clean up. I have a ducted DC for my stationary tools. The central vacuum is more than capable and am extremely happy with the system, but I don’t know how it compares to your shop vac.

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Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#6 posted 07-15-2018 11:13 AM

Thanks for the input Bob
This is a list of what I will be connecting the extraction system too
Mitre saw, table saw, planer / thicknesser, small drill press, router table. And then hand power tools.

As long as my vacuum has the same kind of power as your all should be be fine

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

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Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#7 posted 08-07-2018 08:11 AM

Hello guys got a problem

Just discovered my cyclone is not working properly
I disconnected my vacuum to Hoover the car and noticed some debris in the hose that goes from the cyclone to the vacuum on further investigation the internal bag was full of sawdust.

Is there anything I can try to resolve this issue as it was working perfectly before with nothing at all going into the vacuum

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

1530 posts in 2469 days


#8 posted 08-07-2018 11:11 AM

How many times have you emptied the can under the cyclone since the last time you emptied the filter bag? If the can under the cyclone is full past a certain point the cyclone won’t do you any good since there is not place for the dust and chips to settle out. I empty the can under my cyclone when it gets 1/2 full and I also clean the filter every few days when I’m making a lot of dust. A dirty filter can kill your suction.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Cammy's profile

Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#9 posted 08-07-2018 11:56 AM

The container had only 6 inches of sawdust in the bottom.

But the bag was full off chipping and hardly any dust I’m away to take all the hose apart and check them for blockages then try it again

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

View Rayne's profile

Rayne

1031 posts in 1660 days


#10 posted 08-07-2018 12:12 PM



The container had only 6 inches of sawdust in the bottom.

But the bag was full off chipping and hardly any dust I m away to take all the hose apart and check them for blockages then try it again

- Cammy

Make sure everything around the cyclone is air tight. If there is an opening anywhere, the cyclone action will not work well. Also make sure it’s connected correctly (vacuum on top of cyclone and hose on the other).

View Cammy's profile

Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#11 posted 08-07-2018 01:03 PM

Ok now I’m confused
Checked all the hoses cleaned out everything and tipped a load of sawdust on the floor and all seems to be working.. nothing at all in the bag.

I’m wondering if the bucket had been too full before and this had allowed the waste to go into the vacuum as EarlS stated in his reply .

Need to get my set up completed but having issues with getting 50mm od pipe.
My builders merchants have 50mm id pipe only..

I hate plumbing lol

Thanks for the quick response guys

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

1530 posts in 2469 days


#12 posted 08-07-2018 01:55 PM

Keep a bucket of sawdust and chips and use the system to run some trials to suck them up now that you cleaned everything out. Make sure everything is tight and then see where the material winds up. That will help with troubleshooting.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Cammy's profile

Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#13 posted 08-07-2018 02:11 PM

Thanks EarlS I have already tried that and all seems to be working fine.

Just back from the local plumbing supplier. I cannot get pipe to fit inside the ball valves I bought as a trial for the extraction system … looks like I will be making blast gates ….

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

130 posts in 118 days


#14 posted 08-07-2018 03:31 PM

Cammy,
If you take a look at my shop on my page, you will see my pvc vac system along the ceiling. Don’t over think this thing. If you dry fit the pvc and fittings without cement, you will have an adjustable and expandable system. also, I tried the ball valves and they are not effective for this system because they are too stiff to actuate. You can cut pvc on your power miter saw so it is very flexible to design.

I use plastic blast gates from the woodworking supply stores. I have adapters and different size hoses for different tools. (Don’t underestimate the effectiveness of Duck Tape. It’s a universal tool and it looks just like “Alabama Chrome” on your system.)

I’m a civil engineer so I “nerded” out and built my system in a loop like you would a large water supply system. It works well because it eliminates dead ends with low pressure.

The short answer is; put the pvc in and adjust/expand as you need it but don’t glue it together.
Have fun

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

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Cammy

23 posts in 74 days


#15 posted 08-07-2018 04:33 PM

Thanks for the input DB
I was planning on keeping the fixed joints to a minimum just in case of blockages due to only using 50mm pipe

The bends and t pieces I need so far only comes to about £20

It will defiantly be cheaper to make the gates than buy them

Can’t believe the price of 55mm ID flexi pipe one company wanted £180 for 6 meters WOW

Will keep searching

Cheers

-- Some people are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

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