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Forum topic by PeteStaehling posted 07-10-2018 11:11 AM 439 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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PeteStaehling

64 posts in 1172 days


07-10-2018 11:11 AM

I have a 10” Grizzly clone of the Tormek that I have been using to sharpen my chisels. For gouges I have been using a shop built version of the vari-grind wit the Grizzly. I love how this setup has worked with one exception…

I seem to be spending way too much time dressing the stone when it gets concave from grinding the gouges even when I try to spread the wear across teh face when sharpening. This is exacerbated by the fact that I have really cheap gouges that require constant sharpening. I am planning to get better gouges, parting tool, and skews so that will help a little, but I was wondering what else I might do.

I might consider a different method of dressing the stone. I have been using one of those cheap harbor freight diamond plates to do the flattening.

I’d also consider just getting a better suited wheel for my regular bench grinder and using that for the gouges. Maybe a CBN or diamond wheel? An Aluminum Oxide wheel for the bench grinder would at least be quicker and easier to flatten than the wide 10” wheel on the Grizzly.

Or should I just quit whining about the dressing and continue as I have been?


15 replies so far

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1735 posts in 2042 days


#1 posted 07-10-2018 12:22 PM

I have had the Grizzly wet sharpener for about 8 years, I use handplanes, chisels, and I turn. Over time I’ve tried many approaches to sharpening the tools. All of my flat tools get primary bevels with a bench grinder and then worked with diamond stones and polishing films. I primarily use the Grizzly for resharpening turning tools. Reshaping them is done on a bench grinder. The wet sharpeners are very slow with hss, and harder plane blades like A2 and PM-V11. The stone loads up quickly and doesnt cut much, but this works well for resharpening turning tools. I use the tormec svd-86? Gouge jig and the bg-100 tool rest for bench grinders and can move between the Grizzly and bench grinder directly, no adjustment.

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Wildwood

2340 posts in 2187 days


#2 posted 07-10-2018 07:55 PM

Single point wheel dresser might work better for your wet stone or bench grinder. Bought mind from Grizzly many years ago; before that had one from Wood Craft that came with plans to make holder out of two pieces of wood with bolt & wing nuts. Just drilled a hole in a block of wood for the Grizzly once size smaller than the dresser and tapped it in to proper lenght.

Have a bench grinder and merely slide my set up along the tool rest.

https://www.amazon.com/Diameter-Silver-Hardwear-Diamond-Dresser/dp/B00NYZ0FQM?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00NYZ0FQM

You may prefer this style which should work too!

https://www.amazon.com/Toolcool-Diamond-Grinding-Dresser-Dressing/dp/B01LX8KYLD?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01LX8KYLD

Shop around for best price!

-- Bill

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Wildwood

2340 posts in 2187 days


#3 posted 07-10-2018 08:02 PM

A CBN wheel or AO wheel would be quicker for your gouges and less wear on you wet grinder wheel. If go with AO wheel get at least K-hardness wheel they last longer than white wheels.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=sharp-n3xw

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-3X-Blue-Grinding-Wheel-K-Grade-P101C20.aspx

These are two vendors I use but do shop around for best price.

-- Bill

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TheFridge

9708 posts in 1538 days


#4 posted 07-10-2018 09:27 PM

Cbn is awesome. My buddy bought a set he didn’t use so he gave them to me 1/2 off. I love him.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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PeteStaehling

64 posts in 1172 days


#5 posted 07-10-2018 11:28 PM

Thanks for the replies, it gives me some things to consider and try.

View Lee's profile

Lee

118 posts in 930 days


#6 posted 07-10-2018 11:42 PM

OK, this is going to probably get some flack, but It works very well for touch up honing while turning. I have CBN wheels also for shaping and the griz 10” wet grinder and was having the same wear problems the OP is having. this was my solution, I turned the grinder around so the wheel was rotating up and set up the wolverine gig for the right angle. No more excessive wear on the stone and the gouges come out razor sharp. I know, it goes against every logic of using a grinder but it works very well on the griz 10” for touch up honing while turning.

-- Colombia Custom Woodworking

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TheFridge

9708 posts in 1538 days


#7 posted 07-11-2018 04:55 AM

Eh. Same guy that gave me those wheels turns a lot and he sharpens strictly for the burr. Pretty much the same thing.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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PeteStaehling

64 posts in 1172 days


#8 posted 07-11-2018 10:50 AM



this was my solution, I turned the grinder around so the wheel was rotating up and set up the wolverine gig for the right angle.

I have done honing with the wheel turning that way, especially on paper wheels, but also on the Griz 10” stone. It hadn’t occurred to me that it would reduce the stone wear significantly, bit I will give that a try.

FWIW, so far I have done the regular dry grinder grinding at a slightly different angle so there is a double bevel. It makes the touch up really quick since less material needs to be removed

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5460 posts in 3715 days


#9 posted 07-11-2018 02:39 PM

FWIW, so far I have done the regular dry grinder grinding at a slightly different angle so there is a double bevel. It makes the touch up really quick since less material needs to be removed

I would not recommend a double (secondary) bevel on turning tools.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1735 posts in 2042 days


#10 posted 07-11-2018 03:36 PM


this was my solution, I turned the grinder around so the wheel was rotating up and set up the wolverine gig for the right angle. No more excessive wear on the stone and the gouges come out razor sharp. I know, it goes against every logic of using a grinder but it works very well on the griz 10” for touch up honing while turning.

- Lee

Both Grizzly and Tormek show in their instructions for sharpening gouges that the wheel should rotate away from the edge, contrary to normal dry bench grinding technique. Yes, having the wheel rotate the correct direction with wet sharpeners will reduce wear as the edge tends to dig in, unlike dry grinders which remove material so easily it isn’t an issue (unless to much pressure is applied)

.


FWIW, so far I have done the regular dry grinder grinding at a slightly different angle so there is a double bevel. It makes the touch up really quick since less material needs to be removed

I would not recommend a double (secondary) bevel on turning tools.

- TheDane

I highly recommend a double bevel on gouges, with a minimum 2nd bevel (at the cutting) edge of ~1/16” (not a micro bevel like plane irons and chisels). The edge bevel can be as large as desired, of course All of my bowl and spindle gouges are sharpened this way, for 2 reasons: 1) the Grizzly wet sharpener re-sharpens them much faster, and the heel of the tool out of the way to make certain cuts. As mentioned above, I also use a bench grinder with the Tormek gouge jig. It is very quick and easy to adjust the jig for the 1st bevel grind on the bench, then adjust for the 2nd bevel on the wet sharpener, when the 2nd bevel gets too large. The same is easily done with any of the gouge jigs, like the wolverine.

JoHannes Michelsen, the cowboy hat turner, has his own line of jigs and expounds on the double bevel here. Other pro level turners do as well.

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RonGreenbush

5 posts in 674 days


#11 posted 07-11-2018 11:54 PM

Gerry,

Just curious…why do you not recommend a secondary bevel?

-- Ron, Greenbush

View PeteStaehling's profile

PeteStaehling

64 posts in 1172 days


#12 posted 07-12-2018 12:24 AM

FWIW, at the local woodturners club meeting the speaker showed a jig setup that ground a triple bevel on gouges. I assumed that was mostly for clearance, but I am not sure if that is the case. I forget the supplier.

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TheDane

5460 posts in 3715 days


#13 posted 07-12-2018 01:06 AM

Just curious…why do you not recommend a secondary bevel?

We may have a semantics problem. To me, a “double bevel” is akin to a micro bevel, which is commonly used on chisels, plane irons, etc.

I am an adjunct instructor in the woodturning program at a local college. One of the things that is most difficult for beginners to grasp is the ABC’s of turning (anchor, bevel, cut). We teach the basics, including a single bevel supporting the cutting edge for beginners. Once a student becomes a little more proficient they can experiment with different grinds (on their own tools).

I have no problem with relief grinds, which is essentially what Hannes, and many other professionals use on bowl and spindle gouges. Reducing or eliminating the heel of the bevel can be a real benefit, especially when making the turn from the side to the bottom of a bowl.

Personally, I prefer an 8” grinder with CBN wheels and a Wolverine, the Ellsworth grind on bowl gouges, and swept-back fingernail grind on spindle gouges. Each to his own.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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woodbutcherbynight

5241 posts in 2461 days


#14 posted 07-12-2018 03:49 AM



OK, this is going to probably get some flack, but It works very well for touch up honing while turning. I have CBN wheels also for shaping and the griz 10” wet grinder and was having the same wear problems the OP is having. this was my solution, I turned the grinder around so the wheel was rotating up and set up the wolverine gig for the right angle. No more excessive wear on the stone and the gouges come out razor sharp. I know, it goes against every logic of using a grinder but it works very well on the griz 10” for touch up honing while turning.

- Lee

I do the same, has worked well for many years. Guy at Highland Woodworking gave me the tip.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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PeteStaehling

64 posts in 1172 days


#15 posted 07-14-2018 02:37 PM

I turned the Grizzly around and set it up to use the same gouge jig as the grinder without changing any settings. It has a different angle on the grinder so that I get the double bevel. I am happy with the results. The wet stone gets concave grooves WAY slower and requires far less truing up. Thanks for the tip.

As a bonus, turning that direction the griz slops almost no water on the bench.

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