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General 12 in. 3HP 3 phase 208v - Recommendation for phase converter / VDF?

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Forum topic by eringuet posted 06-27-2011 03:45 PM 1937 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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eringuet

12 posts in 2013 days


06-27-2011 03:45 PM

Hi,

I could get a General 3HP, 12 inch table saw with a 3 phase motor for less than 1000$. It comes with a 72 inch Biesemeyer fence and an Excalibur sliding attachment.

I feel this is a good deal but I am not sure how to get the three phase power needed.

It seems there are two ways around this, rotary phase converters dans VDF.

I would prefer a VDF but I’m not sure which ones are good and would work for that application.

I’m looking at those:

http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.prodInfo&prodId=5454

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/X200-022NFU1.html?osCsid=65f02aa868a829c386e9184e9e3b671b

What do you guys think?

ET


12 replies so far

View perrybd's profile

perrybd

1 post in 1752 days


#1 posted 02-16-2012 06:55 PM

A drive is a good choice.

I’d assume you’d be looking for a 3HP 1-phase 230V CT VFD, but make sure you’re getting the right VFD.

I’ve worked with guys from VFDs.com. You can call them up and they’ll help you right over the phone. I know they have some reconditioned and surplus drives if your trying to keep it cheap. But honestly I’d recommend a new mitsubishi VFD (They come with a 5 year manufacturers warranty I believe)

Here’s the link:

Variable Frequency Drives from VFDs.com

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eringuet

12 posts in 2013 days


#2 posted 02-16-2012 07:06 PM

Whoo that’s an Oldie.

For future reference, I bought this table saw, took it apart, rebuilt it and I now run it with a TECO FM50-203-C VFD from factorymation.

If I was to do it again, I would get the next model in line since you can change the voltage on the output.

Thanks for answering

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Scot

344 posts in 2857 days


#3 posted 02-16-2012 08:11 PM

A 5 HP vfd can be gotten for around $250 now. They are not nearly as expensive as they used to be. I mention a five HP because the vfd,s seem to perform better and be more durable if you go up one size on heavier equipment (table saws, planners and jointers).

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

645 posts in 1838 days


#4 posted 02-17-2012 03:30 AM

What is the cost of a replacement motor? A used one? This may be a better choice.
Electrically, I don’t like these phase converter stuff. People often don’t install these things right. Also you will loose roughtly 10% of your energy on it.

If you ever sell your house, you should remove it first. It’s a can of worms for the inspector to see.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View Tyrone D's profile

Tyrone D

314 posts in 1793 days


#5 posted 02-17-2012 07:02 AM

hhhopks,
A good replacement single phase motor is likely going to cost more than 185 dollars for the Teco FM50-203-C.
From what I’ve researched, a VFD does not sap any power from your motor and they are also easy to install. You plug in six wires, there’s not much to screw up provided you read your manual.

I believe you are thinking of a Static phase converter.

-- --Tyrone - BC, Canada "Nothing is ever perfect, we just run out of time."

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eringuet

12 posts in 2013 days


#6 posted 02-17-2012 12:13 PM

hhhopks,

No offense but I think this is an uninformed comment.

There is nothing funky about a VFD. They are used in industrial settings all the time. They’re not cans of worms as they are covered by the electrical code just like any other electrical installation. Also, you hook it up on your table saw and run a connector to your outlet. When you leave, of course you take it with you…

There are many advantages over changing the motor.

First, you don’t need to buy any starters for the motor or modify what you have.

Second, it ramps up the speed so you don’t get a spike at start up. I run my 3HP motor (11A) on a 15A breaker.

Third, there is a lot of people who believe 3PH motors are better. Even if 3HP is 3HP most people will tell you that 3 phase are more powerful.

Finally, in my case, it was cheaper to get the VFD than change the motor.

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hhhopks

645 posts in 1838 days


#7 posted 02-17-2012 07:34 PM

You guys have enlighten me. I retract my statements.

I’ll study it. All VFD convert AC to DC first and back to AC. So 1-ph AC in to DC and DC out to 3-ph AC. Since it is all electronics, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

I was thinking of the old phase converter stuff (big, heavy and expensive) and often is shared with other equipment.
Is there salvage value to the motor taken out? It is a real pain to get rid of it.
Though it may be small, the VFD should consumes some load (nothing is free). It must not be significant enough.
I definitely have to agree with eringuet on the smooth ramp start.
The cost of these VFD has come down significantly.

It is intriguing, as 3-phase equipment often goes dirt cheap. Often businesses are not interest in messing with used equipment and home owner don’t want to mess with 3-phase. I will have to whip out my calculator and re-evaluate to see which route to take.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

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eringuet

12 posts in 2013 days


#8 posted 02-17-2012 07:49 PM

Great!

There are also people using VFD to speed control lathes and reverse the direction of motors.

It’s true that 3ph is a smaller market and some equipment can be had for less… all about calculating the final cost.

Cheers

View Tyrone D's profile

Tyrone D

314 posts in 1793 days


#9 posted 02-17-2012 09:23 PM

When I get a good drill press, I’m probably going to eventually buy a single phase to single phase VFD just for the convenience of pressing a button rather than fooling around with belts.

I’ve done a lot of research on VFD’s lately. I’d say it’s a lot cheaper to buy used 3-phase machinery and use a VFD than buy single-phase. Oftentimes the buyer doesn’t know anything about phase conversion or VFD’s and sells it for a ridiculously low price. That’s how I got my Wadkin Bursgreen AGS10 Sawbench for 400 dollars.

-- --Tyrone - BC, Canada "Nothing is ever perfect, we just run out of time."

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eringuet

12 posts in 2013 days


#10 posted 02-17-2012 10:22 PM

Amen to that Tyrone

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hhhopks

645 posts in 1838 days


#11 posted 02-18-2012 02:33 AM

I do believe 3-phase machine are meant to be in a heavier dury envrionment, Being big and buliky they are generally have better accuracy, precision, and power. I can’t affford to buy a new 3-phase piece of equipment. My wife would of divorced me long ago. It is worth considering the used ones. Yes, very temping.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View Tyrone D's profile

Tyrone D

314 posts in 1793 days


#12 posted 02-18-2012 02:56 AM

One downside of three phase equipment is they almost always were used in an industrial setting, which can mean the machine has been running most the day since it was first bought. With some love and care, any machine can be a good machine.

-- --Tyrone - BC, Canada "Nothing is ever perfect, we just run out of time."

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