Pine and Oak

I haven’t used the General stains, but I know that with MinWax there is some difference between the color of stained pine and oak. If you have the stain already, prep a piece of spare stock the same as you will the project you are building – sand to the same final grit with the same grits you are using on the project, etc.; condition just as you will the proj., then stain. This way you will see exactly what your proj. will look like when stained. Then if you don’t like the look, you can either get another shade of stain, combine two different shades until you get what you want, or choose another method of finishing. I’m sure some will disagree with me, but I apply the wood condition and let it sit overnight before I stain (contrary to what it says on the can, at least with MinWax). I saw this suggestion on one of the forums and it has worked well for me. But, if you are going to do this for your project, also do it for your test piece, otherwise the test will be pretty meaningless.

Jim

Good question. Pine is somewhat problematic. Oak has a different set of problems as well. You are wise in using a conditioner on pine. It is notorious for being blotchy. In my limited experience, it has been one of the hardest woods to get a clear vivid color. My suggestion would be to ignore the cans instructions (Conditioners). Most say to apply stain within 2 hours. Every other resource (Bob Flexner, Pop Woodworking, and American Woodworker off-hand) I’ve read says to wait overnight and I’ve seen photos that prove the point. General Stains work well for me. I’d dilute it with the appropriate thinner (H2O or Mineral Spirits) and build up the stain slowly. Another great idea would be a gel stain as it stays on top the wood.

Oak – Huge pores. Very visible to the eye. You have to have a plan for what if anything you will do to fill them. I like staining Oak dark, so I normally use a dark wood filler prior to staining. The pores can be used to add different colors as well. This could create a neat effect of depth if you get creative.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

The best way is to just try them. After a while you will build up a collection of what works with what.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Take a pine and/or oak board and make yourself a step wise finishing chart with them. Block off a small area on the board for each finishing step that you will be using on your project. This way you not only see how the stain looks on the board itself, but also how each step in the finishing process affects the appearance of the wood.

As Gary said build your own library. The store pieces are not a good measure of how the piece will finish out. Use them as a very general reference but making your own is a far better approach.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

You may be able to take this a step further. Make a sanded/conditioned/etc test strip, and take it to your local finish supplier. Many will let you dab a bit of several different stains onto your test piece. Leave a stripe of unstained wood between colors, and you can cut them into ‘color chips’ when you get home.

I’ve also noticed that some manufacturers have started making small foil-packed stain samples. I haven’t tried them, myself.

-- There is nothing in the world more dangerous, than a woodworker who knows how to read a micrometer...

Absolutely there is a difference! Pine should be treated with a conditioner first, but like Gary said build up a library of different woods and write on the back of them what you did to them to achieve that color. Also keep in mind from one tree to the next each batch of wood may be different especially if you buy them from a big box store like rotten orange.
I would log onto Charles Niel’s website and see some of his you tube videos on staining and applying finishes. A good book you could buy is Understanding finishes by Bob Flexner. You could also send Charles Niel a PM and ask him how to go about this. Your a Kid, so he may want to help you out – he seems like a pretty nice guy from his posts here on LJ’s. Be patient and I’m sure you will get a lot of good consistent advice and don’t be afraid to experiment with scraps to see what you come up with.
By far I’m no finish expert, but I always play around with finishes and consult books and known authorities before I try anything on a finished project. My experience with pine as I am working with some right now is that it can be fickle and my past experiences have proven to be no different.
You’ll be fine as long as you can be patient and expiriment.
Have fun in the lab, wear gloves, respirator and eye protection. Be careful how you stow any used rags. Spontaneous combustion can cause fire!

-- --Chuck

I agree with Jeff. It is much better for the wood conditioner to dry overnight. In the class I took from Bob Flexner he stressed that the directions on the can was incorrect. He felt that the instructions in general on stains and conditioners were consistently wrong. That said, I would probably use a gel stain as recommend by Jeff. chiefk

-- P Kennedy Crossville, TN

thanks for the help everyone. i will probably go with the gel stain and do some test pieces first. like everyone said i have already started up a library. i have a piece of mahogany so far. thanks for all the great ideas. this is a great help and this is the reason why i love this site so much!

Gee, you guys are particular….. I just decide whether I want it light or dark or in between.

-- Dave Leitem,Butler,Pa.,http://dlcarver.etsy.com

Your local lumber yard or cabinet shop will probably give you some scraps to test stains on if you ask them nicely. Can’t wait to see the project complete!

-- --Chuck

The library idea is great but instead of individual pieces, try a long (3-4 ft) waste cutoff from a species you will use alot. Then as you buy different stain colors/manufacturers, apply them to the “library stick” and lable each with the color and manufacturer. After a while you will have a handy reference “stick” hanging in your shop.

Lew

I recall the stain board at WoodCraft having both a pine and oak sample board, probably for just this reason, such a commonly used wood!

I’ve been testing woods now that it’s warmed up a bit with Arm-r-seal from general finishes…once piece I’m coating this week is some scrap southern yellow pine, which further more is pressure treated. Yes, I know. It’s scrap off a roof job last summer…

Anyway, I’ve hit it with three coats so far, nothing other than the usual sanding before, no conditioner…and while the first couple coats look like nothing, the 3rd is magic, the grain has deepened into a lovely amber, and the earlywood has become golden. Of course, it’s not a stain, just a wiping varnish.

I recall the stain board at WoodCraft having both a pine and oak sample board, probably for just this reason, such a commonly used wood!

-- "That which has in itself the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty." - Unknown Shaker