Veneering with PVA glue (Standard yellow glue)

Thanks for the tip. I have been thinking about getting into veneering.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

Dave,

1. What project do you have in mind for this veneer work? Or,

2. Are you just having fun trying out something new?

The reason I ask: PVA glues tend to creep, meaning they won’t stay put very well as the wood moves due to changes in moisture. This is the main reason that some rigid, gap-filling specialty glues were developed for critical veneering work, such as the Unibond 800 (a 2-part urea resin glue), and Weldwood’s DAP Plastic Resin glue (a 1-part urea formaldehyde glue) .

-- Al Navas, St Joseph, MO, http://sandal-woodsblog.com

So far I have used only standard yellow glue for veneering. I just work fast for larger projects.

I haven’t had any problems at all with it. I did but some DAP plastic resin glue just in case I had a problem,
but I haven’t touched it yet.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Al, I veneered my clock base using the process I had talked about, and I don’t seem to be having any problems. The reason this process seemed to best suit me, is theres room for error, and if it happens to crack , you can just iron it down and the crack is invisible or barely visible. I think the way I designed it I need it to creep a little bit so the veneer wont crack ( I veneered a circular base with a solid 3/4’ cherry top.

I recently blew $120 in materials because the guy at the local Woodcraft said “use contact cement!” Of course I’ve also since read a veneer manufacturer recommending contact cement, but when I took the results that had torn themselves apart to a woodworker I trust he told me about the PVA glue trick.

Next time…. And avoid that contact cement.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

So this would not work with a vacuum press, what glue would you use for that process?

-- Maplewood, MN

rikkor,

For a vacuum press, two glues stand out:

1. Unibond 800 (a 2-part urea resin glue) – my top choice.

2. Weldwood’s DAP Plastic Resin glue (a 1-part urea formaldehyde glue).

Both have long open times.

Both also have limits for application. For example, they must be used (typically) above 70°F, with long vacuum bag clamp times. Many craftsmen will leave the work piece in the bag overnight, or about 12 hours. This is required to get a full cure of the glue.

You might want to look at VacuPress . Look at this for information about the Unibond glue . I believe it was Darryl Keil who developed Unibond 800 in the early-mid 90s. You will also find some DVDs on their web site, a great resource. They also have a great support forum, and their Tech Support is great – Darryl will address many of the tech issues himself.

-- Al Navas, St Joseph, MO, http://sandal-woodsblog.com

I’m with Al on the Unibond 800.

There are two other glues with longer open time, one quickly available and both easy to use:

1. Plain old ‘white’ glue, such as Elmer’s is basically the same as ‘yellow’ glue with longer open time. I use it to glue-up assemblies where I need the extra time for application, clamping, and squaring.

2. The second is a Titebond product with extended open time that I think I bought years ago from Highland Hardware (now Highland Woodworking).

Both take a little of the stress out of the work.

-- Earle Wright, Lenoir City, Tennessee

Thanks Al and Earle. I guess I don’t have any veneering projects on my list. I do plan to make a vacuum press to glue bracing to guitar tops and backs, though.

-- Maplewood, MN

I use veneer glue that I get from Joewoodworker.com The Urea glue needs a critical temp control. Too cold and it won’t really dry properly and to hot and it dries too fast. In my shop I don’t have a controllable heat where I do my veneering so I like the cold press glues. (like white glue). But I’ve never tried ironing, but I hear it works well. Especially if doing columns where vacuum is a problem.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Ya with the PVA glue, all you need is a hot iron, yellow glue, and a foam roller.

Rikkor – Just use go-bars to hold your bracing. They’ve been doing it that way for hundreds of years.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

DaveT: Sorry if my questions continues to hijack your thread…

rikkor and Gary,

I am totally ignorant about making musical instruments. I had to look up the term go-bar, and learned a LOT from that search.

My question to both of you, and anyone else making instruments: Have you ever used go-bars in your regular woodworking?

The reason I ask: I can envision being able to use go-bars in my woodworking, expecially where it might be difficult to use clamps, on irregular surfaces, etc.

-- Al Navas, St Joseph, MO, http://sandal-woodsblog.com

Al – I use them every time I need to. They also work great in veneering when you don’t have a vacuum press.
Just put a caul over it and start adding go-bars from the center out.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

i assume you mean pressing bars. 2×2’s with a slight radius. i don’t have a vacuum press and this is all i use to veneer with. 2 mdf cauls and enough bars to get even pressure. I use titebond III to veneer with. you get about 6 to 8 minutes of open time and i’ve never had a problem with creep or movement after using it, even on larger panels. If i was doing something more intricate, that would take longer, i would use the plastic resin glue.

-- Joey, Magee, Ms http://woodnwaresms.com

jcash3 – you can see what I mean by go-bars here:

http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/GaryK/blog/2554

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Dave, thanks for this post. I’ve bought some veneer and want to try my hand at it. How hot should the iron be? Silk, cotton, or linen? I’m not ready to spend all the money on presses and such until I find out veneering is something I want to do.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

This iron thing….I have heard of it before, many times actually, but every reference I can find says to use Type II PVA as it will reactivate by heat. Have you actually done this with Type I? I’d hate to mess up some veneers because I had the wrong glue :)

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

Tightbond II works best, if your ironing the veneer on.

-- Les, Wichita, Ks. (I'd rather be covered in saw dust!)

Tightbond II is a type II PVA, I’m just making sure type I will work (before somebody makes the mistake)

-- If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning... www.rarewoodcreations.com

If you have type 2 use it, i used type 1 and it worked fine. As far as heat of the iron, It has to be able to heat though the veneer and reactivate the glue. I also found that using a veneer with a cardboard type backing on it made it a little easer for me, and doesn’t show all of your sanding imperfections as much. As far as using a cloth, I didnt and I had some small burns near edges of the board, I’d recommend a cloth, but if you do it right those burns should sand out fairly easily. And make sure you start ironing in the middle of the board, it makes things alot easier on you. Good Luck, and questions just ask.