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Hardware Hinge Masters: I'm Luckless Sourcing Matching Cabinet Hinges, Please Help

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Forum topic by Lovegasoline posted 04-19-2018 01:01 PM 4603 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


04-19-2018 01:01 PM

Greetings!

Hello there everybody …

I’m doing the mother of stripping epics … a 90 year old built-in kitchen.
The hinges and latches will need to be replaced, hopefully with some variation of solid or plated brass finish.

I thought the stripping would be hideous and epic … and sure enough it was … er…is! But sourcing the hinges has been amazingly frustrating and I’ve had zero luck finding any match whatsoever for the dimensions and hole patterns. Nothing. Nada. Zippo.

Oh dear!

Can anyone offer some insights, sources, suggestions, or solutions (without muttering ‘that poor bastard’ under their breath)?

I’ve attached some pictures and dimensions, please have a look and tell me what you think.

PS: Now, this probably isn’t the best way to introduce oneself, but allow me to link a recent thread I started on another forum which has more details of the cabinets and projects, if you’re interested:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f17/built-kitchen-cabinet-stripping-restoration-let-me-draw-your-expertise-200209/

PSS: Btw, I go all the way back to rec.woodworking in the 1990s and posted as ’-N.’
PSSS: is this posted in the correct forum, or should I post it in the ‘Designing Woodworking Projects’ forum?

Anyways, glad to be here … I’ve been lurking for a while and am cranking up the wood in my scene and after I get done these cabinets I’ll resume work on a decades old suspended workbench project.


20 replies so far

View DS's profile

DS

2917 posts in 2417 days


#1 posted 04-19-2018 01:09 PM

Much will depend on where you are located as to what will be available to you. Also, often, retail options are limited.

This type of hinge is fairly available to the industry, but not very popular.

This one is from Hafele who distribute pretty much worldwide. There are many, many other variants of this type of hinge.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#2 posted 04-19-2018 01:25 PM

Additional Pics of the hinge:

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#3 posted 04-19-2018 01:28 PM

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Nubsnstubs

1286 posts in 1727 days


#4 posted 04-19-2018 01:42 PM

I don’t have a link, but search for Terry Hinges. I got some weird sizes from them a long time ago. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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DS

2917 posts in 2417 days


#5 posted 04-19-2018 01:55 PM

Another variation on a theme

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#6 posted 04-19-2018 01:58 PM

Thanks for the suggestion DS,

(Btw, I neglected to mention that these hinges are for inset face frames).

One potential problem is that in the Hafele hinge (in your first post) the holes are on 1-7/8” centers; my hinge holes are on 1-3/4” centers.
Also, on the Hafele hinge’s right leaf, the three holes are inline and are 1/8” in diameter; the center hole on mine is offset slightly, I believe it’s 1/16”; the hole diameter on mine are larger @ 7/32nds.

Btw, I’m in NYC.

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#7 posted 04-19-2018 02:04 PM

DS, the second hinge you posted unfortunately doesn’t list more detailed specs, such as hinge width and hole pattern dimensions … perhaps understandable that such specifications are missing from a retailer, but odd that the manufacturer doesn’t list this info.

Nonetheless, these are getting closer than anything the hinges I’ve come across previously.

[note: edited]

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DS

2917 posts in 2417 days


#8 posted 04-19-2018 02:04 PM

Just an idea; If you drill out and plug the existing holes, you could put any hinge you wanted.

Any restoration hardware joint will charge an arm and a couple legs for exact-matching vintage hinges.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#9 posted 04-19-2018 03:41 PM

The hinge is for built-in kitchen cabinetry in an apartment building in NYC. There are dozens of apartments in the building that have/had the exact same cabinets or a slight variation thereof, with the same hinge hardware. There’s nothing in the least exotic about the cabinetry construction, quite the opposite: it looks to be built with the maximum efficiency, i.e. minimal material. You’d think that whatever hardware they used would be a readily sourced and commonly available for the time … and although hardware has changed in the interim decades … one would think that there’s be at least some current hardware available that matches up.

Its crossed my mind that if I can’t get a match on the hinge I’d have to try some workaround.

When you suggest drilling out the hole, are you suggesting widening it and filling it with a dowel, or instead to fill it with something like Bondo?

If you check out the link in my first post (to my other forum post) you’ll see the insane amount of time and work this project has already consumed. The last thing I want to have to do is drill out, plug, and redo holes for 12 doors. Gah!

PS: nubsnstubs, I somehow missed your post. Thanks for the suggestion I’ll see if I can locate some info on their products.

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DS

2917 posts in 2417 days


#10 posted 04-19-2018 03:53 PM

At the time the cabinets were made, this hinge was likely the most economical of its day.

Nowadays, though, things are much more modernized. You can see that over time, the hinge has more stylized finials, various finishes, elongated holes for easier adjustment, etc These modernized versions are relatively inexpensive.

There are a few places that kept the old dies and presses and are reproducing the period hardware. The economy of scale no longer applies to these retro hinges – thus = Expensive.

Although you could get lucky and find this hinge still in distribution, you are looking for a SPECIFIC hinge from a specific manufacturer – and it doesn’t seem you even know who that manufacturer is.

As for plugging the holes, placing a screw 1/8” from an old hole is a recipe for failure. In order to get a good bond to a plug, drilling to 5mm or 1/4” and gluing a dowel into the hole would make a strong base for a new screw next to it. I wouldn’t think it would be horribly time consuming. I wouldn’t recommend Bondo for anything requiring a mechanical bond (such as a screw). I would leave Bondo in the “cosmetics aisle”.

$0.95 per hinge versus $20 per hinge might incentivize the hole plugging effort some.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Loren

10383 posts in 3645 days


#11 posted 04-19-2018 03:53 PM

Van Dykes Restorers may have something that
will work for you.

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CaptainKlutz

264 posts in 1491 days


#12 posted 04-19-2018 03:55 PM

Hmm
If you want same style of hardware, just looking new, why not restore original?
There are hundreds of WWW references for “how to” salvage old hardware.

Step 1)
Boil hardware in large disposable pot of water for 2-4 hours. An old crock pot from Goodwill works too.
- old paint should fall off.
- red iron oxide rust will be converted black iron oxide, which stops oxidation process
- Wire brush the remnant paint off metal.
If it is brass, tehn reuse; if steel, then re-plate with finish you desire.

Step 2)
Every major city has at least one company who does metal plating restoration. I used Theis many years ago in Missouri. You can find most any plating company who does barrel plating to get work done. They can easily make those look like new. Will need a tumble polish, nickel barrier plating, then brass plate. Most also have a polymer emulsion dip that is used as very thin top coat to prevent brass from tarnishing.
Rehab of antique hardware in 1800’s and early 1900’s homes is extremely popular. Should be easy to find small restoration shop that does re-plating, or a plating shop that can.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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Lovegasoline

22 posts in 35 days


#13 posted 04-19-2018 04:10 PM


As for plugging the holes, placing a screw 1/8” from an old hole is a recipe for failure. In order to get a good bond to a plug, drilling to 5mm or 1/4” and gluing a dowel into the hole would make a strong base for a new screw next to it. I wouldn t think it would be horribly time consuming. I wouldn t recommend Bondo for anything requiring a mechanical bond (such as a screw). I would leave Bondo in the “cosmetics aisle”.

$0.95 per hinge versus $20 per hinge might incentivize the hole plugging effort some.

- DS

Reflecting on this more, I don’t think it will be easy. The extant mortises are cut to size for the original hinges and the full mortise length and depth is visible on the face of the door. If I use different sized hinges and/or shift the location of the hinges even by a small amount (for ex. moving the screw holes over 1/4”) I’ll also need to modify the mortises: extend the mortise on one end and fill it up on the other end … in addition to drilling/plugging holes and drilling new ones.

The initial scope of this project had me reluctant to commit in the first place (you’d have to see the linked thread to understand, lol) ... doing additional extensive modifications to the doors to accept a different hinges … well … I’ve already long ago crossed the line where I think restoring the cabinetry is a good idea. This might place me squarely in the territory of cutting my loses (time,energy, expense, enthusiasm) and just build new cabinets from scratch … at some indeterminate future date … and in the meantime run for the hills. Well on this morning at least, facing dead ends on the hardware, I’m not feeling terribly enthusiastic. Venting of course, but we’ll see where this goes and if any options appear.

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Rich

2813 posts in 586 days


#14 posted 04-19-2018 04:35 PM

Using xScope to approximate the pixel/inch value for the image, and comparing the distance between the holes to the overall 1.75×2.5 inch size of the hinge, the spacing for the top and bottom holes appears to be 1.75” on this hinge.

https://www.houzz.com/product/30826131-national-mfg-25x175-solid-brass-broad-hinge-n211391-traditional-hinges?m_refid=PLA_HZ_30826131&device=c&nw=g&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_ODWBRCTARIsAE2_EvVnQM_WY3oGeMJjx3ZMMUBHVHOTN-vwzKs0nZu-sbvD7T_XwSdG-ZUaAuoTEALw_wcB

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

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DS

2917 posts in 2417 days


#15 posted 04-19-2018 04:52 PM

I was thinking the overall size would be a decent match, but the hole locations might not be.

Rich may be on to something with National Hardware cabinet hinges.

https://www.natman.com/type/cabinet-hinges-specialty-hinges

V629 Cabinet Hinge

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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