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Forum topic by KnickKnack posted 05-19-2011 11:33 AM 1627 views 1 time favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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KnickKnack

1062 posts in 3027 days


05-19-2011 11:33 AM

I was hoping not to have to get into this, but something strange has happened so I feel I simply must.

A few weeks ago Crushgroovin posted a blog about food safe finishes (please note, this post is not about food safe finishes).
A number of people, myself included, posted responses to this blog.
Everyone who disagreed, or had a counter-point to make, was blocked, and he then posted the same blog again.
The original responders cannot, of course, now comment on this new version of the blog.
I’ve just discovered that the original blog seems to have gone (I may be wrong, but I couldn’t find it) – that was the version where the entire LJ community had a chance to comment. We are left now with the “only some could comment” version. If I do a google search for “food safe finishes” this is the version that is found.

For me one of the key features of LJ is that, if someone posts a question, they are taping into 1000s (probably 100s of 1000s even) of man-years of woodworking experience. What I do not expect is to read a reply to something where anyone who disagrees has not been allowed to comment.

People. This is, imho, wrong.
Not only is it wrong, it’s positively dangerous.

What’s next?
I post a topic entitled ”the myth that wood dust damages your lungs”.
I block all the responders who say it’s not true.
Then I post it again and, well, it rides as posted. Anyone searching might well think that, given people didn’t disagree, maybe it’s true.

Since this incident I’ve been wary of the responses I’ve read on some threads – perhaps it’s a version 2 thread where disagreement has not been permitted. Or perhaps the poster had an argument a long time ago and blocked some people because of it.

Just for example there’s a recently re-activated thread about using bamboo. For all I know there are 100 lumberjocks out there who know something really really important about using bamboo, but they had a spat with the poster 8 months ago about something totally unrelated and got blocked. They’re sitting at home perhaps knowing that a bamboo splinter, if not properly dealt with, can cause a serious infection; or that bamboo attracts death-watch beetle, or any one of 100 things that they have experience of. But I will never get to know this because they’re blocked.

The ability for anyone to block anyone for any reason has tainted the credibility of just about every thread posted since it was introduced. I suspect that 99% of threads just “happen” normally, without blocking etc. But that missing 1% could kill me.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."


21 replies so far

View MsDebbieP's profile

MsDebbieP

18615 posts in 3621 days


#1 posted 05-19-2011 12:55 PM

what is the link? I got lost on all the different postings being made at that time. It had my head spinning, so to speak.

We’re currently looking at all the posting rules … hopefully some of the issues will be resolved with any changes that are made.

Thanks for the feedback and the very good point that you make

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

1062 posts in 3027 days


#2 posted 05-19-2011 01:08 PM

MsDebbieP—The link to the first time this topic was posted – the one where we all had a chance to reply, is, from what I can find, no longer available. We are left only with the one to which I, and a whole load of other people, cannot reply. But really the point isn’t about that specific post (although I personally think it should be removed), it’s about the general issue.
As another, and perhaps better, example – I recently posted Jointing/Thicknessing on the router table - a new approach?. A couple of people pointed out some serious potential dangers with what I’d suggested. And I’m very very grateful to them – their comments could save my fingers or my life, and those of anyone else who read my post. But if I’d blocked superstretch last month because I didn’t like his comments on a project of mine, he wouldn’t have been able to post his comments, and my potentially dangerous suggestion would be sitting there, for a billion internet users to read, for all time, unchallenged.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2523 posts in 2899 days


#3 posted 05-19-2011 01:13 PM

Wood dust is dangerous?

;-)

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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MsDebbieP

18615 posts in 3621 days


#4 posted 05-19-2011 02:44 PM

I knew that’s what you meant -it’s a very important point .. I also wanted to check out the posting that remained.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

View miles125's profile

miles125

2180 posts in 3466 days


#5 posted 05-19-2011 03:01 PM

I thought the block button was something for butcher block fanatics.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7143 posts in 2375 days


#6 posted 05-19-2011 03:49 PM

KnickKnack,
With so many babblers now on LJs, it becomes self-explanatory as to why the block button exists. These babblers post randomly just to hear themselves speak, so to say. And all that ends up doing is to serve as a distraction, drawing attention to themselves, and muttling up/diluting the original point of the/each affected thread.

You make a very good point for the majority of users, but it doesn’t take much/many to make a mess of things. Personally, I would like to see a blanket statement placed in a respondent’s post on the thread in question that effectively says, ”Censored by Thread Originator”.

I originally thought that maybe a reason could be added as well but it wouldn’t be long before such ”reasons” would be abused (such as A. OFF Topic, B. Vulgar/Offensive) and flame wars would ignite. So NO reasons should be listed.

But I do like the idea of labeling ”Censored by Thread Originator” and leaving the poster’s text box on the thread. This might serve as a self-regulating process, pointing out either those who continually post off topic or who continually censor/block others posts. That being said, I am sure there will be those who would find a way to abuse this as well…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View superstretch's profile

superstretch

1530 posts in 2154 days


#7 posted 05-19-2011 04:27 PM

Its so weird hearing my name indirectly.. haha

Just keep in mind that this is the “Innernets” and just because someone says it, doesn’t make it true. Yes, people should strive to be correct, but I’ve seen moments on here where people have posted careless mistakes or inaccuracies.. Always use discretion when taking advice, especially when it comes to safety. The user manual is often a better bet when fingers are on the line.

@Debbie, @Knickknack – This might be it: http://lumberjocks.com/Crushgroovin/blog/22801

@HZMike – I’ve often looked at slashdot.org as a great commenting system, but its really only effective with super-large communities. “Karma” is an attribute earned by good commenters and comments themselves are voted up and down, often with identifying characteristics {troll, funny, informative, etc}

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

View ChrisForthofer's profile

ChrisForthofer

150 posts in 2528 days


#8 posted 05-19-2011 04:36 PM

I havent blocked anyone so I wouldnt know how it works here but it would seem to me that it shouldnt work like its being described above. Most boards I frequent have a similar feature and all it does is exclude the blocked individuals postings within a subject. So its like ignoring them yet it doesnt prevent them from interacting on a subject and allows those that dont have the individual blocked to see all comments. My 2 cents anyway

-- -Director of slipshod craftsmanship and attention deficit woodworking

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16241 posts in 3679 days


#9 posted 05-19-2011 04:42 PM

KnickKnack, you do have a valid point. Although I agree that the scenario you describe would be fairly rare.

Personally, I would favor blocking to extend only to PM’s. In a public forum like this, I don’t think one member should have a right to block another member from commenting on his post just because of disagreement or personality conflict. As long as the post is civil, everyone should be able to express an opinion. Abusive comments are another matter, but those should be flagged for removal by a moderator.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View devann's profile

devann

2200 posts in 2153 days


#10 posted 05-19-2011 05:10 PM

I like HorizotalMike’s idea and he does make some good points, but after reading Charlie’s take of the subject I think that would be an easier way to deal with it. Like Mike said, somebody would figure out a way to abuse it anyway.

-- Darrell, making more sawdust than I know what to do with

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7143 posts in 2375 days


#11 posted 05-19-2011 05:13 PM

I like Charlie’s idea. Block only PMs, NOT the public threads, as this does affect valid/legitimate interactions of LJs members.

Dan, without joining slashdot, it is difficult to see/understand the functions that you mention.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16241 posts in 3679 days


#12 posted 05-19-2011 05:24 PM

Chris (#8 above) has a point as well. Some forums have an “ignore” button that makes the selected poster invisible to you, while not actually blocking them from posting.

With such a feature, people who wanted to lower the smart-a$$ factor in their reading could simply hide my posts without affecting those who appreciate my finely-tuned sense of humor. (My wife has been searching for this button for the past 31 years.)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View superstretch's profile

superstretch

1530 posts in 2154 days


#13 posted 05-19-2011 05:25 PM

See an example of a slashdot story/commenting here: http://linx.me/ov (you don’t need to be logged in)

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

8239 posts in 2889 days


#14 posted 05-19-2011 05:39 PM

My experience with blocking only encompasses framing and quilting.
But, I’m learning from all of your posts. Thank you. Knowledge is a good thing.
I like Charlie M.’s posts.
Now that I’ve added my own consequential and insightful comments, I’m off the the shop.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

1062 posts in 3027 days


#15 posted 05-19-2011 05:58 PM

I think Charlie’s nailed it there – “Block only works to stop you getting PMs from a specific user”.

superstretch has a valid point too – everything should be treated with a dollop of salt on the ‘net.
That said manuals just don’t get to the nub of many issues – they have instructions for use – great – they have warnings for improper use – great – but do they answer the specific question I’m asking – usually not. For example, I asked a question a while back about big bits in a router table. I got answers to that specific question, which I’d hunted for but not found elsewhere, from people with experience – it’s good to learn from your betters – again this may well have saved me money as well as serious injury. Putting that in the context of the original point here – I know that anyone who wanted to comment on that was able to – had someone else asked the same question maybe Charlie wouldn’t have been able to make his (obvious if you’d thought about it, but totally key) comment about tipping, and I wouldn’t have learnt that. Had anyone else posted the question I now have doubts – maybe they have Charlie blocked because they didn’t get his sense of humo(u)r sometime last year?

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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