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Forum topic by Ivan posted 05-04-2011 06:51 PM 6069 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ivan

185 posts in 2844 days


05-04-2011 06:51 PM

Topic tags/keywords: finishing

I’m doing a rather large bar top and need to be able to install it in pieces already finished.
I have read about the 2-part epoxy and my concern is not only the application of a self leveling finish on pieces that will not be assembled until I deliver. I cannot handle a 12ft long bar top and deliver it or even get it in the door, so it will be 3 pieces joined on site and the joints will be filled with a 2-part Marine epoxy.

The high film thickness isn’t really required as this is a bar in a photo studio, so it will see light traffic, mostly the occasional coffee or wine for clients, not a Friday night crowd at a sports bar.

I wanted to be able to spray on several coats of a water based urethane and then buff it out to a nice gloss, thinking that water based builds more quickly than solvent and I can avoid the brush marks issue of using a Behlens Rock Hard table Top varnish.

Any ideas? I have used GF pre-cat urethane with good results and the stuff seems tough, but McFeelys Crystalac has had good reviews as well.

Any help would be appreicated.

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."


11 replies so far

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vernonator

75 posts in 2118 days


#1 posted 05-04-2011 08:41 PM

Waterlox is what you want….

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1117 posts in 2527 days


#2 posted 05-05-2011 12:43 AM

I would not recommend any waterborne finish for something that will get the wetness and abuse of a bar top. Waterborne finishes are not as water and watervapor resistant as oil based finishes, nor are they as tolerant of abuse.

Bar and restaurant table tops use Pour-On two part epoxy finish.

The problem you can have with this type of finish is that it forms an impervious surface and no air will pass through. However air will get to the underside and cause it to expand/contract with changes in relative humidity. This will cause the surface to warp or crack. Pour-on finish is best applied to a composition substrate like plywood or MDF which is not affected by changes in humidity.

Behlen Rockhard-like Waterlox Original—is made using phenolic resin.

If you are getting brush marks from the Behlen Rockhard varnish then you did not thin it down.
Even I cant brush full strength of the product without thinning it down.

The best finish would be a true marine exterior varnish. True marine exterior varnish is slightly soft and flexible so it can take a ding from a mug or can and not crack and craze. Even if dented, the finish will conform to the dent and not allow water to penetrate. Once water gets between the finish film and the wood, it will rather quickly cause the finish to lose adhesion.

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Ivan

185 posts in 2844 days


#3 posted 05-05-2011 04:39 AM

Steven,

Will a the Behlens cure so I can polish it or does it take a very long time to off gas?

Thanks for the help.

-Ivan

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."

View eruby's profile

eruby

79 posts in 2241 days


#4 posted 05-05-2011 05:00 AM

You may want to check the guys out at target coatings they make waterborne finishes that are designed to be sprayed. I have used their waterborne Lacquer with some success in the past and the stuff dried super quick. (no I dont work for them)

-- Eric - Baltimore MD

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Ivan

185 posts in 2844 days


#5 posted 05-05-2011 05:11 AM

eruby,

do you know how well the 9300 holds up to water and chemicals?

My main concern with the Behlens is the fumes, being that I would be finishing this in my basement shop. I was thinking of trying to build a tent outside and apply only in the morning to allow the pieces to offgas for a few hours before bringing them in for ‘final cure’. This way I planned on applying only 1 coat a day and taking a full week to apply. But this would extend the build and I really need to get this project finished. However, I don’t want to have to redo the entire thing if the finish comes off is sheets…

Thoughts??

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1117 posts in 2527 days


#6 posted 05-05-2011 06:35 AM

Poly does not “rub” to a high gloss. You need to use a hard finish like lacquer to get the most gloss. Poly and other varnishes are relatively soft and flexible. It’s the softness and flexibility that give varnishes their “toughness”. Hard finishes scratch easily.

You will never get a poly to be more glossy than it is right off the brush.

View Brino's profile

Brino

5 posts in 2045 days


#7 posted 05-05-2011 07:04 AM

water based products can be just as durable, if not more durable than the solvent. They also dry quickly

View Ivan 's profile

Ivan

185 posts in 2844 days


#8 posted 05-05-2011 01:41 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I’ll try both on a test board and see what I get.

Cheers,
Ivan

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."

View eruby's profile

eruby

79 posts in 2241 days


#9 posted 05-05-2011 06:26 PM

ivan,
“do you know how 9300 holds up to water and chemicals?”
Short answer is no. I have not used the 9300. But, I dug around on their forum and found this recommendation from the companies owner:
”... bar top schedules towards either the EM2000wvx or the EM9300, both cross-linked with the CL100 Cross-Linker at 2% by liquid volume. These finishes will give you the alcohol/water/chemical resistance needed for a pro-bar finish. Why the two? Em2000 has a alkyd-varnish look/feel and the Em9300 is water-white/non-yellowing. Your choice on film color effect…”

I have used their EM6000 to finish the sides on the bookcasehttp://lumberjocks.com/projects/41579 project that I posted.
Hope everything works out for you!
BTW if you are spraying in your basement I would strongly recommend only spraying waterborne finishes. I put 4 coats of the EM6000 on the bookcase and couldn’t smell a thing upstairs.

-- Eric - Baltimore MD

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Ivan

185 posts in 2844 days


#10 posted 05-10-2011 02:55 PM

Eric,

Thanks, I’m thinking of using another product sold locally Bonakemi Traffic, I have read that it can be a little difficult to apply, but it is a 2 part system with little ot no VOC’s.
I agree on the WB for finishing in the basement, I used a Danish oil on a small project and the house stunk. Even the 2 part wood filler just stinks the whole house up.

Thanks again,
Ivan

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."

View eruby's profile

eruby

79 posts in 2241 days


#11 posted 05-13-2011 05:41 PM

Ivan,
That stuff looks interesting. Should hold up well for the bar since it is intended for floors. I have never used two part finishing systems. I hope it works out for you.

Good luck
Eric

-- Eric - Baltimore MD

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