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Help using dye stain & to stop streaking.

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Forum topic by Ken90712 posted 05-02-2011 08:08 PM 4945 views 0 times favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


05-02-2011 08:08 PM

Topic tags/keywords: alder finishing modern question

Ken here,

I watched the Woodwhisper dye video using the 7 parts Orange & 4 parts Med Brown dye stain by general finishe’s. I love the color. I’m making an Entertainment Center out of Ash Plywood for the case & Knotty Alder for the top and drawer and raised panel doors. I used Charles Neil blotch control 2 coats like recommended as well.

For the life of me I can not get this color to stop streaking or looking uneven on both the plywood or solid wood. I’m applying it with a sponge brush like you did as well. I wipe it with a cotton cloth once penatrated. I have thought about using a roller but once I wipe it I feel it will still streak.

I have never had this much trouble finishing a project….

Any ideas or help would be much so much help.
Thx in advance
Ken

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"


24 replies so far

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ken_c

314 posts in 2623 days


#1 posted 05-02-2011 08:30 PM

Seal coat of shellac on top of the dye, then add the top coat. Maybe even spray the shellac seal coat…

never mind – I misread the question.

But, maybe it is like pine or maple. Both are really hard to stain. Cherry too for that matter. maybe the blotch control you used is the issue. Did you sand to too fine of a grit? I have had issue with colorizing maple where I sanded to 220 only to find out that caused the blotching issue. The cell structure was to small and sanding to that fine of a grit caused parts of the board to get plugged while other were not, hence blotches. Once I re-sanded I stopped at 180, no more blotching…

Please tell us you did not use a purchased tack rag, those things are full of silicates that repel the finish and plug the cells structure of the wood.

For blotch control I have had a lot of success with a 1/2 pound cut of shellac. Had applied lightly then sanded to the finial grit, usually 180. Then the color goes on as a glaze followed by a sprayed top coat.

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DonH

494 posts in 2278 days


#2 posted 05-02-2011 08:35 PM

Hi Ken

Not sure what the issue can be other than not fully mixed – that would seem to be the only way it would streak. I regularly mix Old Masters gel stains with no trouble, but if there is a small area that did not mix thoroughlly it will streak. I fix it with a quick rub of the spot and add more stain.

Don’t know if this is any help.

Don

-- DonH Orleans Ontario

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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


#3 posted 05-02-2011 08:54 PM

Ken, Hows it going buddy?

I did sand to 320, and sanded lightly in between the blotch control that alot of people swear by. Did not use a tack rag, hate them. Cleaned off with air and mineral spirits and dried overnight. It might be the color and the way it goes on. But so far it is awful.

Don how have you been? I have made sure I mix the stain real well before using each time. I did what do as well and fix the spot by adding a little more but at time it make it worse.

Not sure on how I will fix this, I have way to much time and money to give up now! LOL

Thx

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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degoose

7196 posts in 2815 days


#4 posted 05-03-2011 12:05 AM

Have you thought of Charles Neils’ wood conditioner… I have not tried it but A1Jim swears by it…

-- Drink twice... and don't bother to cut... @ lazylarrywoodworks.com.au For lovers of all things timber...

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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


#5 posted 05-03-2011 12:37 AM

Yes you might of missed that in my discription Degoose. Hope all is well down under mate!

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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blackcherry

3313 posts in 3284 days


#6 posted 05-03-2011 01:47 AM

Ken it may be the mineral spirits is not compatible with the dye stain. Is the dye stain a alcohol base or alkyd base. If it a alcohol base try whipping the surface with denature alcohol first. Just a thought worth trying my friend good luck …Wilson

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Steven H

1117 posts in 2521 days


#7 posted 05-03-2011 06:58 AM

Problem what I see people do( this includes articles and wood working magazine) They are misleading which can cause problems in finishes.

Its they FLOOD the dye stain on the surface of the wood. That can cause streaks, overlaps.

BRUSH IT ON MOVE ON.
DON’T OVER BRUSH

Please get rid of your sponge brush and get a good quality natural white china bristle.

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#8 posted 05-03-2011 03:00 PM

what you want to do it wet the area and wipe it back and move on, dyes dry fast and over wiping will give you the streaks, sprayin is best, but not always possible i personally like a stain pad, because it allows for me to wet the surface, fast, brushes and so forth dont hold enough dye to wet a surface fast and quick, thus lapmarks, the objective is to work one panel , section at a time, get it wet as quick as possible and then wipe it back, you can use a damp pad, with either water or alcohol to even and level the dye, if needed, also dyes dry fast , and as they dry they look awful, dull and dead, and you will be tempted to rewipe, dont, dyes, what you see what its wet is what you will see when its topcoated, if the color is light , let it dry and then apply another coat.

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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


#9 posted 05-03-2011 03:40 PM

I’m using General Finishes Water based Dyes. I did not use Mineral spirits to clean the other parts, same result.

Steve, Interesting info, I will try my luck and use a brush. I did exactly as you mentioned, put a good amount on and wiped it back with no luck.

Charles, I thank you as well. Love the Blotch Control I purchased from you. I do not think this is a blotching problem, more an application Sna Fu on my part. I broke out my HVLP last night and started ensuring all the parts were perfectly cleaned. I will go buy a stain pad as well.

Should I sand the top with 180 and then spay or if I spray over it will it even out?

Thx everyone for the help. I have never run into this kind of finishing problem, and appreciate all the advice and assistance.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#10 posted 05-03-2011 03:50 PM

Ken you can spray over, however it wiil definately get alot darker, remember unlike a stain, 2 coats of dye are usually double dark , if it were me, i woul dwipe it down with a semi wet cloth and remove as much of the dye as possible, remember a water dye can always be redissolved by water, until its topcoated, but agaiu go easy, alot of water and you can soften the blotch control, as its water soluable as well, if it starts feeling tacky, back off, let it dry a while ,and then do it again, but you should be able to wipe most of the dye off,

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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


#11 posted 05-03-2011 03:52 PM

Thx I’ll give it a shot. Too much time and money to loose this Battle…

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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Steven H

1117 posts in 2521 days


#12 posted 05-03-2011 04:55 PM

Ken

Can you post a photo?

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Steven H

1117 posts in 2521 days


#13 posted 05-03-2011 05:13 PM

I’m not going to argue with the stain pad, everyone has a way of doing things. I’m not a fan of stain pad. I prefer to brush it. Its up to you.

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tdv

1139 posts in 2531 days


#14 posted 05-03-2011 09:51 PM

Well Ken we have a lot of different brands in the UK & I’m not sure how they compare to the American counterparts But in recent years I have started using paint pads (I guess that’s the same thing as your stain pads?)
a thin sponge pad with chenille facing. I find it easier to blend & even scrub the stain or dye in then pull the colour to the desired density by adding a little water to the pad & “blending it” as auto refinishers do by adding succesive amounts of clear lacquer to the colour to fade out into the original. One technique I use is to pull the pad diagonal to the grain & then finish with the grain it seems to body up the colour & as Charles rightly says you can semi-remove & soften the intensity by wetting & wiping just remember to dry it quickly before too much water is absorbed. I hope you nail it
Best
Trevor

-- God created wood that we may create. Trevor East Yorkshire UK

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Ken90712

16951 posts in 2649 days


#15 posted 05-04-2011 11:01 AM

I will post pics soon. I took the day off from working on it and did some errands. Had to clear my head and let my temper simmer down a bit. I do thank everyone of you for helping me on this rookie item. I never had trouble with finishing before.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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