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Trouble setting a Stanley hand plane

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Forum topic by kyngfish posted 03-14-2018 12:04 PM 2972 views 0 times favorited 47 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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kyngfish

20 posts in 294 days


03-14-2018 12:04 PM

Hi All – I’m pretty new at this – I’ve built your odd cabinet here and there, but now I’ve been acquiring better tools and building more complicated things. One of the things I’ve purchased recently is a set of hand planes, a number 7 Stanley and a number 4 Stanley, both pre-war. Both are in decent – used condition. (I think?)

I bought the veritas blades for both, and I honed and installed the number four last night – and I can’t get it set up properly. I’ve watched a ton of videos and read articles and I can’t get it set.

It seems like no matter what I do, the blade is too close to the front edge of the mouth. I’ve taken it apart and put it back together, and I’ve adjusted the frog back and forth.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the frog for my number four doesn’t come flush with the back edge of the mouth, it slides back from the back edge of the mouth about a quarter inch when I adjust it, but the farthest forward it goes is about 1/16th or so from the mouth bevel, so I feel like in that position the blade would never sit completely flush with the frog. Maybe someone sanded or ground down the frog too much?

Appreciate any tips or pointers. Do I need to buy a new frog?


47 replies so far

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BlasterStumps

991 posts in 644 days


#1 posted 03-14-2018 12:37 PM

You will need to file the front of the mouth opening to make room for the thicker Veritas blade or, just use the original Stanley blade.
From what you’re describing about the frog, seems normal to me. I think it is fine. Put the original blade in and adjust for a close mouth opening and you will have it.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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bbasiaga

1240 posts in 2200 days


#2 posted 03-14-2018 12:53 PM

It’s ok if the frog doesn’t match up perfectly with the throat. I have the thicker Veritas blade in my no. 8 and had to move the frog back, and it cuts just fine with no chatter. Remember the bevel is down in these planes so there is some clearance there until the blade is pushed out pretty far.

I saw a neat trick on YouTube that I haven’t tried yet, but could help you. Wrap the blade with two pieces of blue painters tape. Then loosen the frog screws and install the blade and lever cap like normal. Now use the frog adjusting screw to slide things forward until the tape just touches the front of the mouth. Now remove the blade and tighten the frog screws down. Your frog will be in the right place for a shaving that is two pieces of tape thick, or thinner.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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rwe2156

3174 posts in 1686 days


#3 posted 03-14-2018 01:17 PM

You can definitely install that blade in a #4 without filing the mouth.

You should be able to tighten the frog without it moving. Sounds like something is going on with the frog.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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TheFridge

10763 posts in 1691 days


#4 posted 03-14-2018 01:51 PM

Somethings up with the frog.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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kyngfish

20 posts in 294 days


#5 posted 03-14-2018 02:04 PM

Frog doesn’t move once it’s tight. I just notice that it doesn’t come flush with the throat. The furthest forward I can get is about a 16th back from the back of the mouth. I feel like when I adjust the blade down to start shaving – that distance pushes the blade back at a shallower angle and moves the edge forward when that happens – so no matter how far back I push the frog I’m not really getting more space in front of the edge. I’ll post pictures this evening. Appreciate the help.

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TheFridge

10763 posts in 1691 days


#6 posted 03-14-2018 02:19 PM

It maybe the wrong frog. I’d try typing the parts to see if you have 2 parts with different types maybe?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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bandit571

21795 posts in 2888 days


#7 posted 03-14-2018 02:25 PM

Put the OEM blades back in, and see how it works with them. The plane was designed to use those irons and chipbreakers. Unless there is something UNDER the frog holding things up? Took apart a #4 one time,that wasn’t working right…only to find someone had added a steel plate under the frog….”to help seat the frog better”..it didn’t.

Stanley #4, Type 10…..OEM iron and chipbreaker

Stanley #8, Type 7..original iron and chipbreaker

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

15704 posts in 2823 days


#8 posted 03-14-2018 05:08 PM

Kyngfish, it sounds frustrating for sure.

That the frog cannot be set coplanar with the back of the mouth is certainly a problem. I’ve not heard of anyone removing up to 1/16” from the face of a frog before, so Fridge’s point of ‘maybe the wrong frog’ may be correct. You might consider elongating the slots in the frog to get the fraction back vs. ‘new’ frog. And once it’s forward and flush, there’s still the issue with an overly tight mouth.

That’s when the OEM blade and breaker may be pressed back into service to verify it’s a thicker Veritas cutter problem or something else.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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Don W

19018 posts in 2772 days


#9 posted 03-14-2018 09:28 PM

Post a picture of the frog from the top moved all the way back. I agree it sounds like a frog problem.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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kyngfish

20 posts in 294 days


#10 posted 03-15-2018 01:55 PM

OK so I was wrong about something, I fiddled with the frog last night and I can get it pretty close to flush with the throat, maybe it isn’t close enough but I will let you all be the judge. Veritas sells these blades as fitting the stanleys, and it’s a real shame because I actually put the other blade on my No. 7 and it works like a dream. I have the original blades, but the one on my No. 7 wasn’t flat and at my skill level, I couldn’t get it properly sharp. 2 minutes of honing the veritas blade for the No. 7 and it worked like a charm cutting a 12degree angle into the end of a piece of birch plywood.

I’m posting the pics to get your opinions. One shows the frog all the way forward, the next all the way back. Then I have a pic of the gap with the blade, and another showing that the blade isn’t breaking the surface of the plane yet. Thanks for all the feedback and help.

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BlasterStumps

991 posts in 644 days


#11 posted 03-15-2018 04:52 PM

frog looks fine to me.
I’d be interested in seeing now if you can insert the Veritas blade and chip breaker and have the cutting edge clear the front of the mouth when it is properly set for cutting. (assuming we are talking your smaller plane)

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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TheFridge

10763 posts in 1691 days


#12 posted 03-15-2018 05:50 PM

To be clear. It’s not the frog adjusting screw holding it up? I’m usually able to overlap the mouth with frogs.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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kyngfish

20 posts in 294 days


#13 posted 03-15-2018 05:57 PM

@thefridge Well I’m not sure. The adjusting screw is definitely at its limit. I think I have a little space left for the frog to slide forward re: the top tightening screws. Is there another shorter screw I can buy? or one that allows more adjustment?

@BlasterStumps I can post another pic tonight, but essentially as soon as the blade is far down enough to clear the mouth, it’s also forward of the front edge of the mouth, and the gap between blade/front of mouth is so small that the little bit of wood that gets scraped from the blade gets stuck in the mouth gap.

I can post more pictures tonight.

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bandit571

21795 posts in 2888 days


#14 posted 03-15-2018 06:10 PM

Hmmm….might see what I have….

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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TheFridge

10763 posts in 1691 days


#15 posted 03-15-2018 07:38 PM

Might suck an awl in the hole for the frog adjusting screw and see if it has junk packed in there. Worst case I’d cut 1/16 – 1/8 off the screw. I’d never use any adjustment that puts the frog out of line behind the mouth anyway. Just me.

I know if you’re using the new iron/cap iron it wouldn’t matter much but the problem would bug the hell out of me.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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