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Making "flat" lacquer

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Forum topic by HammerSmith posted 03-13-2018 04:00 AM 1091 views 0 times favorited 83 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HammerSmith

152 posts in 233 days


03-13-2018 04:00 AM

I hope this is the right place to post this..?

I want to mix some “flat” lacquer… flat like primer…

But it’ll be the final finish. I’m shooting for a flat “dark bronze” color..

So, here’s my plan, but I’m not sure how it will work out.

I have an old can of semi-gloss lacquer, and I already used much of it without mixing a few times. So, what’s left has a lot of the “flattening agent” still there on the bottom.

I’m thinking about adding some more semi gloss to that thick mess, and maybe a little thinner, and a lot of “burnt Umber” tint..

My concern is if that will be too much additives for the lacquer. ?

Seems like it should work… But I figured I’d ask anyway.. Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated..

Cheers,

Jim

-- ~Jim


83 replies so far

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#1 posted 03-13-2018 04:53 AM

Rather than use some old junk with an uncertain sheen, why not go with a premium flat lacquer?

Note: The image says satin on the can, but it is flat lacquer. They’re a great company to do business with and I’ve bought it so I know.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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HammerSmith

152 posts in 233 days


#2 posted 03-13-2018 05:27 AM



Rather than use some old junk with an uncertain sheen, why not go with a premium flat lacquer?

Note: The image says satin on the can, but it is flat lacquer. They re a great company to do business with and I ve bought it so I know.

- Rich

Thanks Rich. I’m not familiar with that brand, but I see your point about just buying some new lacquer..

But at the same time, lacquer never goes bad. Shoots, it doesn’t even have to be stirred… So I wouldn’t call it “junk”.

The can that I have, maybe I shouldn’t have disparaged it… I’ve been saving it for just such an occasion as this.. It’s thick on the bottom with the flattening agent, but I’m just not sure how much additives I can get away with…

If I could find “flat bronze” in a rattle-can, I would just use that… The base doesn’t really matter… But “flat” spray paint has limited color choices.

-- ~Jim

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#3 posted 03-13-2018 05:38 AM

I had no intention of disparaging your can. That’d be like insulting your wife. Something I’d never do.

I don’t have any experience with vintage lacquer, so I’ll bow out on that discussion. Just do some test boards to see what kind of result you’re going to get with it. If it looks good, then go for it.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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HammerSmith

152 posts in 233 days


#4 posted 03-13-2018 07:15 AM

Lol Rich, Im not insulted at all man… it’s just an old can of lacquer ;-)

I’m pretty sure that my plan will work out, and of course I will do some test pieces, but I never tried to make extra flat lacquer before, so I’m wondering how much “flat” I can add to it…

If I can get it to look like a bronze suede, that would be perfect…

-- ~Jim

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#5 posted 03-13-2018 01:51 PM

Hopefully that works for you. If it doesn’t, you have a number of options. Water based dyes can be diluted to get just the tint you’re looking for. If you want a solvent based spray, Mohawk makes dye based transparent toners in a spray can that comes in about 30 colors. You could top either of those off with their dead flat pre-cat lacquer in aerosol as well. I think you’re looking at about a 5 to 10 sheen on that. I’ve used it and it is definitely flat.

If you want product links for any of that, let me know.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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CharlesNeil

2436 posts in 4019 days


#6 posted 03-13-2018 07:58 PM

Absolutely. You just need to get the ratio of falttener rignt
Pm me and i will help
Done it many times.

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#7 posted 03-13-2018 08:23 PM

Why PM? Why not let the rest of the community benefit from your wisdom and expertise?

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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CharlesNeil

2436 posts in 4019 days


#8 posted 03-13-2018 08:43 PM

The man ask a simple question
After 51years of finishing. I know the answer..
He dont need a bunch of argument or bs.

Just the facts.

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#9 posted 03-13-2018 09:03 PM

Who’s arguing? With you involved I expect nothing but valuable input. No one’s going to argue with that.

But hey, have it your way. I just thought other folks could benefit from it too.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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jbay

2681 posts in 1048 days


#10 posted 03-13-2018 09:06 PM

I was curious myself. I thought the stuff that settled was full of the solids, not just the flattening agent.
Was hoping to find out?

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CharlesNeil

2436 posts in 4019 days


#11 posted 03-13-2018 09:47 PM

No jbay.the settlement is the flattner.
Go on any woodworking store..grab a can of rattlel lacquer..shake it.if its a semi glosd satin or flat..you will have a rattle. If is a gloss.nothing.
The ball is there to mix the flattner..
Check a spray can of shellac…nada..nothing. its always gloss.
There are several flatteners used
Most are fumed silica. A sand derivative. It diffuses the light and makes threm appear
what ever sheen desired..
The key is the amount of flattner used.
They actually sell it separately. It can be used on most finishes and used to diffuse shellac. As well.

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Rich

3668 posts in 738 days


#12 posted 03-13-2018 10:24 PM

Indeed, there were other curious members out there.

Now, not to start an argument, but just to state a fact, Mohawk pre-cat gloss lacquer in an aerosol can (M102-0410) does have a ball that rattles. I was surprised myself, but dang if it doesn’t rattle when I shake it. The only explanation I can think of is that it’s cheaper for them to just use one container for all of their aerosols.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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CharlesNeil

2436 posts in 4019 days


#13 posted 03-14-2018 12:02 AM

All finishes begin as a gloss.
Love mohawk products.
Rich may be right. Beats me.

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HammerSmith

152 posts in 233 days


#14 posted 03-14-2018 12:09 AM



Indeed, there were other curious members out there.

Now, not to start an argument, but just to state a fact, Mohawk pre-cat gloss lacquer in an aerosol can (M102-0410) does have a ball that rattles. I was surprised myself, but dang if it doesn t rattle when I shake it. The only explanation I can think of is that it s cheaper for them to just use one container for all of their aerosols.

- Rich

I’m not real familiar with “pre catalyzed” lacquer Rich, but that’s different stuff..

I like the old nitrocellulose lacquer just because I’m familiar with it. The can that I have out there now is just a quart of Minwax semi-gloss, but it’s almost empty. ...It has the extra flattening agent on the bottom because I used it a couple times as high gloss (which means I didn’t stir it at all)..

Mostly, I’m just wondering if there’s a limit to how much additives lacquer can carry. Between the flattening agent and the tint, I’ll be adding a lot. If I can, I’ll tint it as heavily as paint…. less coats that way..

-- ~Jim

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HammerSmith

152 posts in 233 days


#15 posted 03-14-2018 12:16 AM

Thanks CharlesNeil,
I was mostly just wondering if anyone has any stories about adding too much to the lacquer… I don’t mind a little trial and error, but I always like to try to avoid the error part as much as possible :)

For instance, could too much additives cause it to crack or peel after a couple months?

I’ll be spraying it with a gun.. iirc, the tip is 1, or 1.2 … I think I can get a bigger tip for it if I have to.

Cheers,

Jim

-- ~Jim

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