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What does a big boy jointer add?

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Forum topic by Floyd Hall posted 03-12-2018 03:32 AM 1122 views 0 times favorited 34 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


03-12-2018 03:32 AM

Topic tags/keywords: jointer v table saw

Hi folks.

I have a somewhat conceptual question. I have a good quality contractors saw that doesn’t quite cut good enough. I am whittling down the issues one-by-by one, but I’m basically running out of things I can do to upgrade its performance. Basically, after installing splitters, which I hope to have done this week, I’ve exhausted the possibilities other than buying a bigger motor (which would cost as much as I paid for the saw) and maybe a link belt. Blades are new, belt is new, bought a stiffener, even changed the fence face, which had wear spots. The saw been aligned to death. Trust me.

I’m told I can’t expect much more out of the saw. Right now it can handle 3/4 and 4/4 hardwoods, but it struggles with any serious hardwood at 6/4. My question is how much a big boy long-bed jointer that could properly dress long boards would help. I currently have a decent short-bed jointer (44i) but it won’t take the bend out of long—5ft+—pieces. A good long-bed jointer (72i) has come available for a decent, but not great price.

Would buying the long-bed jointer give me better results working in tandem with the contractors saw, or not?

Floyd


34 replies so far

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

5892 posts in 2379 days


#1 posted 03-12-2018 03:50 AM

Floyd I struggled for several years with very old contractors saw. I was extremely blessed to find an amazing deal on a cabinet saw. The difference was like night and day. The quality I’ve been able to produce is amazing. I’d suggest that you upgrade to a cabinet saw if you have the room. To my way of thinking the table saw is the center piece of my shop. Every other tool only improves on it.

Understand it was not my first choice. I settled for it due to the cost and close proximity. Honestly I haven’t regretted the purchase. It’s increased the quality of my work. Money well spent.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6882 posts in 2313 days


#2 posted 03-12-2018 03:56 AM

Splitters, link belts, jointers – none of that is going to improve the cut on your saw. I’d suggest what Bob said. If you are unhappy with the performance of your saw, upgrade to a better saw. If you are concerned about space, keep in mind that a hybrid or cabinet saw takes up less space than a contractor saw – tables are basically the same size, but you won’t have a motor hanging out the back.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#3 posted 03-12-2018 03:58 AM

Will a better jointer help at all? I was hoping being able to dress the boards better would make for better cuts on the contractors saw—that on long boards straighter boards would make things easier on the contractors saw.

I ask because I’d like to keep the contractors saw to use it as a job site saw. I also don’t have a lot of room in my shop and the mobility is good.

Floyd

View jbay's profile

jbay

2578 posts in 1013 days


#4 posted 03-12-2018 04:00 AM

Floyd, your boards may be straighter, but the saw is still going to struggle just the same.

How many teeth are your saw blades your using?

View playingwithmywood's profile

playingwithmywood

425 posts in 1711 days


#5 posted 03-12-2018 04:15 AM

what brand model of saw do you have it might help this conversation to know that

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

442 posts in 1608 days


#6 posted 03-12-2018 04:20 AM

We all face this same battle when using with contractor grade saw with a 110VAC motor.
None of them cut 6/4 or 8/4 stock quickly due to lack of horsepower. They should cut it cleanly when properly tuned, but not as fast as 4/4 stock.

One trick I did not see you mention was saw blades?
When ripping thick stock with contractors saw, using a thin kerf rip blade can help a lot. I use a Freud 24 tooth glue line blade when ripping heavier stock, and it helps increase cutting speeds on my Rigdid 1.5HP contractors saw .vs other blades. Can also help to use a combination blade for cross cuts as they seem to clear waste better than blade with uniform tooth pattern, but can suffer lower cut quality.

Best luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#7 posted 03-12-2018 04:22 AM


Floyd, your boards may be straighter, but the saw is still going to struggle just the same.

How many teeth are your saw blades your using?

- jbay

I have three thin-kerf Freud blades—30T rip, 50T combo and a 60T cross-cut. The 30T and 50T are brand new. Someone suggested trying a 7 1/4i blade and it actually did okay. So I was thinking about buying a smaller—a 7 1/4i or maybe 8i—Forrest blade. I only need to cut up to 6/4. I don’t need the saw to go beyond that. At a minimum I need it to cut 4/4 without struggling or creating burn marks.

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#8 posted 03-12-2018 04:46 AM



what brand model of saw do you have it might help this conversation to know that

- playingwithmywood

It’s a Powermatic 64A. It’s got a nice table top and fence. Just not quite enough motor.

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3320 posts in 2891 days


#9 posted 03-12-2018 12:14 PM

Floyd – I currently have a Ridgid contractor saw. To straighten out long boards that are bowed may be a waste of wood and not get the results you are looking for.

If I have a live edge and want to straighten the board out, I have a nice 6’ level that I clamp to the board in a way that will give me the grain I want. If it is too much of a mess, I take some of the high spots off with a skill saw. If they are short pieces, I put them on a sled.

Just some ideas.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View avsmusic1's profile

avsmusic1

273 posts in 799 days


#10 posted 03-12-2018 12:39 PM

you’re not able to clean up the line on a 5’ board with your current jointer?

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1108 posts in 1023 days


#11 posted 03-12-2018 02:02 PM


It s a Powermatic 64A. It s got a nice table top and fence. Just not quite enough motor.

- Floyd Hall

I saw one of those 64A’s up for sale in my neighborhood a few years ago. I was considering making an offer until my research on the saw yielded one owner after another complaining of the exact problem that you’re reporting. The inability to get an accurate cut. From what I gathered, the machine was flawed in it’s design.

Perhaps a better strategy would be to start by replacing it with a better quality contractor’s saw. It’ll cost less than a cabinet saw, take up less space and will allow you to have money left over to purchase the jointer. The only problem you may have is finding a buyer for the PMatic.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View LazarusDB's profile

LazarusDB

26 posts in 279 days


#12 posted 03-12-2018 05:21 PM

I was in similar situation last year using a 25 year old Craftsman contractors table saw. I bought the Grizzly G1023RLW and haven’t looked back. Once I started using the new saw I was practically kicking myself for waiting so long to buy a new saw. I didn’t realize how bad the old one was until I used the new one. Save yourself a lot of time and aggravation and buy another saw.

-- Aaron - Aspiring Craftsman

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#13 posted 03-12-2018 06:52 PM


you re not able to clean up the line on a 5 board with your current jointer?

- avsmusic1

I can do 5ft, but past that it’s dicey. If I remember correctly, there’s a rough formula for this—twice the length of the outfeed table. That’s 22i, so 44i would be the max. length according to the formula. This jointer would give me 72i of cutting length if I remember the formula correctly.

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#14 posted 03-12-2018 07:03 PM

It s a Powermatic 64A. It s got a nice table top and fence. Just not quite enough motor.

- Floyd Hall

I saw one of those 64A s up for sale in my neighborhood a few years ago. I was considering making an offer until my research on the saw yielded one owner after another complaining of the exact problem that you re reporting. The inability to get an accurate cut. From what I gathered, the machine was flawed in it s design.

Perhaps a better strategy would be to start by replacing it with a better quality contractor s saw. It ll cost less than a cabinet saw, take up less space and will allow you to have money left over to purchase the jointer. The only problem you may have is finding a buyer for the PMatic.

- Ripper70

I think it cuts as well as any contractors saw and they’re all designed about the same. If I buy a new saw, it will be a cabinet saw. Like I said, the table top and fence are great and it cuts 3/4 and 4/4 stock pretty well. After that, it will cut 6/4 poplar and pine easily. It’s when you get to 6/4 oak, hickory, etc., it starts to struggle. I’ve been working with hickory because that’s what I chose for my work tables. It’s particularly hard and the saw struggles with it. This was largely intentional. I wanted to know exactly what the saw would do. A guy somewhere said he swapped out the motor for a 2 hp and that made a significant difference. He’s a contractor and needed it as a job site saw. I just don’t want to put $400 for a new motor into this. If I was a contractor, I probably would.

The cuts are accurate, by the way, even on the hardwoods. I just get burn marks, which are a pain to sand out.

View Floyd Hall's profile

Floyd Hall

121 posts in 385 days


#15 posted 03-12-2018 07:06 PM



I was in similar situation last year using a 25 year old Craftsman contractors table saw. I bought the Grizzly G1023RLW and haven t looked back. Once I started using the new saw I was practically kicking myself for waiting so long to buy a new saw. I didn t realize how bad the old one was until I used the new one. Save yourself a lot of time and aggravation and buy another saw.

- LazarusDB

What I’ve been thinking.

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