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locking knobs for handwheels don't lock

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Forum topic by KipD posted 03-06-2018 07:20 PM 576 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


03-06-2018 07:20 PM

Just brought home the 1989 34-806 type 2 Unisaw that I’ve been posting about. The lock knobs for the handwheels have a tapered pin at end. When tightened, the wheels do not lock up- or I can feel almost no increase in resistance. Seller is a repair facility and machine shop- he claims that this is pretty normal and that the wheels don’t need the locks. Would like to know if that’s BS. I really like the idea of owning a Unisaw, so I want everything to be right- and stock if possible. Saw some lock knobs online that had a square drive pin at the end of the threads. Never owned one of these so I have no frame of reference.


14 replies so far

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MrUnix

6883 posts in 2314 days


#1 posted 03-06-2018 07:46 PM

There were two locking types… older machines used wedges, newer ones like yours have ‘bullets’ – and the knobs/pins were different for each. You have the newer one, so bullets and a longer pointy end on the lock knob pin. For the height adjustment, the bullets are pressed against the cast pot metal angle pointer bracket – and if you lock the wheel and then turn it, it will tear up the inside of that bracket to the point where they will no longer engage. That is a fairly common failure, but an easy fix. The bullets are brass, and do wear – so you will need to pull yours apart to see the condition of the bullets as well as their mating surface. But the tech is somewhat correct, the height/angle adjustments will for the most part stay where they are even if not locked – although they can move under certain circumstances. It is quite common to find used Unisaws that have their lock knobs missing entirely yet still in production use.

Here is one such pointer bracket that is starting to wear from what I described above:

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#2 posted 03-06-2018 07:50 PM

OK. I am going over the saw in detail now- at least I know this is no big deal- and he wasn’t BSing too much. I can straighten this out later.

Thanks so much…...

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#3 posted 03-07-2018 01:20 PM

OK- I see the groove now in the pointer bracket. Looks like it’s made out of pot-metal. Probably gonna need that. Saw the brass bullets on eBay for $8- fortunately, no crazy “legacy” pricing…..

Thanks…....

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jbay

2582 posts in 1014 days


#4 posted 03-07-2018 02:01 PM


OK- I see the groove now in the pointer bracket. Looks like it s made out of pot-metal. Probably gonna need that. Saw the brass bullets on eBay for $8- fortunately, no crazy “legacy” pricing…..

Thanks…....

- KipD


Did the ebay site have more of the brass bullets? if so, could you share the link with me?
I would appreciate it, mine is starting to strip as well.

I have the 34-855, assuming it should be the same.

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#5 posted 03-07-2018 03:00 PM

Says 10 available- listing is $8.25 per pair, so $16.50 for both hand wheels. Here is the eBay site:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOCKING-BRASS-BULLETS-for-your-VINTAGE-UNISAW-TILT-AND-ELEVATION-SHAFTS-/323105531331?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

He did have other stuff- click on “see other items” in the seller’s info area to the right.

My parts PDF is for 34-806 type 2, “plug” part number 422040740001. Others on this forum would know WAY more than me about compatability, but I’m almost certain those are the same ones in yours.

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jbay

2582 posts in 1014 days


#6 posted 03-07-2018 04:20 PM



Says 10 available- listing is $8.25 per pair, so $16.50 for both hand wheels. Here is the eBay site:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOCKING-BRASS-BULLETS-for-your-VINTAGE-UNISAW-TILT-AND-ELEVATION-SHAFTS-/323105531331?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

He did have other stuff- click on “see other items” in the seller s info area to the right.

My parts PDF is for 34-806 type 2, “plug” part number 422040740001. Others on this forum would know WAY more than me about compatability, but I m almost certain those are the same ones in yours.

- KipD


Thank You!

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#7 posted 03-09-2018 04:51 PM

Kinda hit a snag here- appears that a non-compatable front trunion (see first attached jpg) has been installed in my 1989 34-806 type 2 Unisaw. I have also attached a second jpg of what the front arbor pointer bracket mounting area should look like. I am waiting for the arrival of a new pointer bracket (pn 422-04-014-2008S) from an eBay seller- but I will not be able to install it.

As I think about solutions, I had a couple of questions:

1) I see used front trunions for sale (casting number LTA 405): is this compatable? The work I’ve done so far on my saw tells me that this is an amazing machine with excellent precision and tollerances- would hate to mess it up. (initial arbor/blade runout measurement at 4 1/2” radius on the blade is 0.003” at most!)

2) Is the non-compatable front arbor in my saw from an earlier Unisaw that had no lock brake on the elevation wheel? There was a simple elbow type bracket mounted on my arbor with nothing that would interface with the locking mechanisms. Original silver colored bullets just sitting in the shaft openings with nothing to contact.

3) Guess I could drill and tap the holes for the screws- but not sure if the correct pointer bracket will fit this oddball trunion- could be other compatability issues.

4) Although I want everything to be “right” on my saw, I’m not sure ihow important this is. I have cleaned everyting with compressed air and lubed with the GM Dri Slide molibdium/graphine drying aerosol spray (pn 1052948 from Chevy dealer). These wheels are turning very easily. This lube is my favorite so far- the Boeshield and DuPont Multi-Use Teflon were staying wet- did not dry and leave a film that I could see.

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MrUnix

6883 posts in 2314 days


#8 posted 03-09-2018 07:57 PM

How was your old pointer bracket attached? Can’t tell from your picture if only one or both holes are missing.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#9 posted 03-09-2018 08:22 PM

The single hole in the picture is threaded and is where the old non-threaded hole would be for the indexing Peg in earlier versions of the pointer bracket. Both of the threaded holes are missing for the pointer bracket- The threaded holes that are missing run close to the bore for the crankshaft.There is a simple strip of metal that held the pointer with one bolt where you see the single bolt hole.

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MrUnix

6883 posts in 2314 days


#10 posted 03-09-2018 09:02 PM

The pointer bracket for your saw looks identical to mine, even though the part number is slightly different (post a picture of the one you took out!). I suspect they just cheapened things up on the newer models and went with a different mounting option for it. Delta/Rockwell started selling off their tool divisions in 1981, and in 1984 they sold the large power tools division to Pentair (and renamed it to the Delta International Machinery Corp.). It was about that time when they started really reducing costs.

It may be entirely possible that someone has replaced that trunnion/bracket with a much newer version (not an older one) – you can check the casting to see what part number is cast into it to verify. I am not familiar with the new models so I don’t know. I would wait until you get your new bracket and see if it doesn’t still work just fine – given that it looks identical to all the others I’ve ever seen. There is not a lot of force on that thing, so it doesn’t need a real beefy mount.

For comparison, here are some images from ereplacement parts… this is the one indicated for your 1986 machine:

and here is an older one that uses the two machine screws to hold it on:

I do not see any difference.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: It would be fairly trivial to drill/tap the needed holes if you want to go that route… then you would just need to find some of those long screws.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#11 posted 03-09-2018 11:52 PM

Brad:

The photo you posted is what is currently available (that’s what the eBay guy is sending me). He also shows another similar pointer bracket that I think he says is no longer available as comparison to the one he sells (earlier version looks better to me). I think they both use the same 2” long fillister screws (I have a set of those screws on their way to me). I am attaching his comparison photo. I have also posted a picture of my ugly bracket.

My elevation wheel doesn’t seem to move if the crank knob is in the 6 o’clock position- so not vital to take care at this point.

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MrUnix

6883 posts in 2314 days


#12 posted 03-10-2018 12:04 AM

Someone did some serious monkeying around with your saw. I checked the parts diagrams from 1943 to 1999 to look at that bracket, and they all appear to be the same – so I have no idea where yours came from. You might want to post that over at OWWM and see if anyone over there knows. I personally would just drill and tap a couple of holes and call it a day.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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KipD

17 posts in 208 days


#13 posted 03-10-2018 12:09 AM

Yeah- I showed the eBay vendor a picture of my front arbor. Said the same thing- didn’t see how that arbor coiuld be in my saw. I think he believes that it’s from another brand. So, apparently, that arbor might have been made by a contractor who sold to different brands? I don’t know….

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MrUnix

6883 posts in 2314 days


#14 posted 03-10-2018 12:11 AM

Quite possible that the original (LTA-405) broke at some point and a PO rigged it with clone parts from a Grizzly or similar – they were almost identical and in many cases used the same casting mold. Who knows – I’ve seen some pretty wild things that previous owners have done, and nobody but them will ever know why they did it.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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