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Forum topic by caboxmaker posted 02-28-2018 07:05 PM 3331 views 0 times favorited 58 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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caboxmaker

281 posts in 413 days


02-28-2018 07:05 PM

Healthcare in America. Are you for or against the government helping out? Now, before you answer I’d like you to put yourself in the shoes of a person who does not have healthcare. There are several reasons a person could be without healthcare. Their employer doesn’t offer it. They are self-employed. Or, they are unemployed. Although the poor and unemployed have access to medicaid.
So, if you’re employed and not yet 65 years old your choices are reduced to a single option. Although retired military veterans have access to Tricare and are taken care of. Obamacare (ACA) offers healthcare options to those without.
I think everyone in America should have access to healthcare. Obamacare is perfect for those that aren’t offered coverage by their employers or are self-employed. How many of you have signed up for ACA coverage and what do you think about it? Are there any folks out there who have refused coverage and pay the penalty? What options, short of moving to Canada, have I left out?
Please don’t let this discussion devolve into a political or religious debate.


58 replies so far

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jbay

2340 posts in 924 days


#1 posted 02-28-2018 07:06 PM


Please don t let this discussion devolve into a political or religious debate.

- caboxmaker

Funny, this belongs in the joke section…

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waho6o9

8207 posts in 2602 days


#2 posted 02-28-2018 07:32 PM

One gets confused between Insurance and Health Care.

ACA belongs in the joke section as well.

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caboxmaker

281 posts in 413 days


#3 posted 02-28-2018 07:35 PM

waho6o9, how would you insure that all Americans get healthcare? Give us your plan.

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waho6o9

8207 posts in 2602 days


#4 posted 02-28-2018 07:39 PM

Competition lowers prices and increases quality. Get the public sector out of the private sector.

:)

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caboxmaker

281 posts in 413 days


#5 posted 02-28-2018 07:59 PM

waho6o9, ACA aside for the moment, what would your plan be? If there was money to be made as you say then the private sector would be all over it.

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waho6o9

8207 posts in 2602 days


#6 posted 02-28-2018 08:03 PM

Enjoy the day Sir.

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Mike54Ohio

173 posts in 504 days


#7 posted 02-28-2018 08:24 PM

I have to say-this is a bold topic to hope for rational conversation in such a polarized environment.
That said, I will attempt some commentary hopefully without too much madness.

I think some confusion over what exactly the ACA is has caused the polarization of opinion on its real purpose. Access to healthcare is vital for any society and I agree with the OP that it s/b available to everyone equally. Many people who are employed full-time do not have the benefit of healthcare to them if the employer is a small business, etc so ACA helps fill that gap.

My biggest disagreement with the naysayers for ACA using comments such as confusing the public sector with the private sector are victims of disinformation regarding the insurance system.

The ACA facilitates the individual persons access thru the public system and directs them to the various Private insurers thru which the policy for healthcare is chosen. The federal government is not supplying the coverage, private, publicly traded companies insure us.

Now before the flaming begins, I can speak from experience here. At age 63, and now not working, I have to insure myself since Medicare hasn’t kicked in yet. Without ACA. nobody (insurer wise) would take me and my wife on as a risk without the ACA.

Sure my insurance costs me a fortune every month (~2000) but it beats no insurance and the reason the cost is so high is that the insurance pool of insured individuals is not large enough to offset my age/risk ratios in the insurance industry algorithms with enough younger enrollees less likely to file a claim.

So wrapping this up: throw all the stones you want, but until we as a country start catching up with the rest of the industrialized world in healthcare, we will continue to pay more for less essentially.

Nobody complains that the state they live in requires insurance to drive a car and yet these same people scream bloody murder that requiring health insurance is a violation of their freedom.

I don’t get it

my 2 cents

-- It's only a dumb question if you ignore the correct answer

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Fresch

245 posts in 1946 days


#8 posted 02-28-2018 08:29 PM

It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
Taking money from one person and giving it to another is socialism, I could use a table saw… send me yours.
When students protesting for obamacare were asked in using the same ideas would they share their 4.0 grade with others lowering it to a 3.0, answer no way I worked hard for that!

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

15369 posts in 2644 days


#9 posted 02-28-2018 08:58 PM


waho6o9, ACA aside for the moment, what would your plan be? If there was money to be made as you say then the private sector would be all over it.

- caboxmaker

Maybe they are. Interested to see where this initiative takes things.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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Mike54Ohio

173 posts in 504 days


#10 posted 02-28-2018 08:58 PM



It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.

- Fresch

So, we should also eliminate Medicare for those over 65? It is a government funded insurance plan. I surely wouldn’t want to be responsible for eliminating the insurance coverage for the elderly and disabled which is what this statement says.

And now I will shut up because this will go nowhere fast if I continue-logic and reasonable conversation is not going to work and this is not the appropriate place to engage in this any further.

Thanks for listening anyway

-- It's only a dumb question if you ignore the correct answer

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Tennessee

2873 posts in 2540 days


#11 posted 02-28-2018 09:10 PM

Buy, I should just keep my mouth shut on this one, but what the heck, here goes…

Mike in Ohio says: Quote – My biggest disagreement with the naysayers for ACA using comments such as confusing the public sector with the private sector are victims of disinformation regarding the insurance system.

The ACA facilitates the individual persons access thru the public system and directs them to the various Private insurers thru which the policy for healthcare is chosen. The federal government is not supplying the coverage, private, publicly traded companies insure us. – Unquote.

First off, let me clarify myself by saying I am retired Navy, a combination of 9.5 active years and 12 reserve years, so my Tricare kicked in at an opportune time, when I hit 60. That is close to where Mike is now, so I can feel his pain, but I did sign on the dotted line for 21 years that I would obey my superior officers up to and including giving my life for this country. It is something that I did willingly, wantingly, and have no regrets. For that I get a small pension monthly, and a great medical plan. I’m good with that.

But for those who took a different path, one of a normal citizen of this country, I feel that you have to do common sense planning in your life. I know things happen, adversity hits, etc., but with some planning and future thought, (and there are a lot of people out there who can help you with this), a person should not end up 63 years old, no insurance, and have to pay $2000 a month to a government sponsored plan that is losing millions and billions a dollars a year, with companies bailing out like rats leaving a sinking ship.

And that is where I disagree with Mike from Ohio. The companies he talks about being “referred to” or the government website “facilitating people to” these companies misses the fact that these companies were subsidized by the government, still lost tons of money, and are bailing out faster than you can say “Insurance Coverage”. And now that the mandate penalty has been repealed, I predict that it will crash soon enough, or become so expensive that no one can afford it, at least those who want it. So what to do?

There are other options.
If you consider yourself a Christian, you might look into Medi-Share, which is a community of Christians who share their medical bills through an even payment plan, and it has a few hundred thousand members, so something must be working. Medical Cost Sharing is another, same philosophy, and there are others. Non-religious co-ops also do exist.

There are trade organizations where if you have a service you can offer, you can trade your service for a medical service. I know a professional musician who is on this, and although not foolproof, it does seem to work for him and his wife. He did have to travel 90 minutes for a dentist, but he got one, free of charge but cost him points that he puts into the database performing for points for his medical plan.

I just don’t think the US Government is equipped to offer health insurance. Most politicians when asked if they would go on the ACA, evaded the question, or said yes then didn’t do it because they have a similar Tricare plan such as the military has. I also think there are ulterior motives involved, politicians always have personal agendas, and overall the result is never that good for the citizen of the country. No matter the party, or affiliation, it all smells in the end and the US Citizen takes the hit. This type of insurance, it also goes a long ways in explaining why Canadian citizens come across our borders to get operations that are not available for months or years in their own country, and may result in death while waiting.

As Gerald Ford once said, “The US Government can’t make a six-pack of beer for less than $50 bucks.”
Our current insurance plan offered by the ACA is a good example of that.

I would rather see quicker approvals by the FDA to help cap profits by drug companies and equipment companies, and beyond that, let the private sector think of an efficient ways to get it done, using national competition as the hammer.

If a hospital is losing money, maybe they need a better collection center, or a more efficient way to handle patients. Not every doctor in this country has to make $250 grand a year, and certainly, men and women should not need to have to pay an educational institution $250-275 thousand to educate them for medical service. There is a LOT of price gouging going on, and that would be a good place to start. Competition is a good start.

The problem is, once a government gives away a benefit, it is almost impossible to take it away. Medicaid is a great example. There are no silver bullets.

I understand the pain Mike and caboxmaker are going through, I was laid off a couple times well before 60 years old and wondered if and when my kids might get sick. It is a sinking feeling. But there are answers, it just seems that none of our politicians want get out of the way and let the US capitalistic economy get in there and duke it out in a competitive manner.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

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JADobson

1071 posts in 2136 days


#12 posted 02-28-2018 09:14 PM



It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
Taking money from one person and giving it to another is socialism, I could use a table saw… send me yours.
When students protesting for obamacare were asked in using the same ideas would they share their 4.0 grade with others lowering it to a 3.0, answer no way I worked hard for that!

- Fresch

Governments everywhere are different, but in the country I reside in (Canada) that is a part the government’s job. It isn’t perfect but it is nice not having to worry about a bill when I go to the hospital with my wife to have a baby. Sure I pay more in tax but I honestly don’t mind. I’m more than happy to help those less fortunate than myself to have that same level of care. You might call it socialism (shouldn’t be a bad word) I just call it being a decent human being.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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Fresch

245 posts in 1946 days


#13 posted 02-28-2018 09:31 PM

JaDobson, that’s nice for your country not for the U.S. we are a Republic.

If you look, in the U.S. We have overlapping healthcare that is already paid by taxpayers. We need to open up competition across the nation.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6766 posts in 2224 days


#14 posted 02-28-2018 09:37 PM

It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
- Fresch

Well, they don’t. The ACA effects all health insurance in the US. It specifies minimum allowable coverages so you no longer can get those junk policies previously being pushed on unsuspecting consumers. It prevents being turned down due to preexisting conditions. It removes yearly and lifetime caps on policies. It facilitates private company coverage of individuals who need assistance in paying their premiums. It reduces the deficit and increases care providers ability to cover more patients without loss. And more. Most of the problems with the ACA are political, not technical, which is a shame.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Fresch

245 posts in 1946 days


#15 posted 02-28-2018 10:01 PM

MrUnix, I was responding to the op, he asked in his 2nd sentence government help, I assumed that was about money.

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