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LN 4 Bronze Frog...poor machining?

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Forum topic by Jonwilliam posted 04-06-2011 06:32 AM 1595 views 0 times favorited 38 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jonwilliam

23 posts in 1361 days


04-06-2011 06:32 AM

Topic tags/keywords: ln lie nielsen frog bronze no 4 plane smoother

It finally arrived…a new LN bronze smoother. Boy is it great when scrap metal prices are so high right now to turn in and get some woodworking candy. I opened the box and behold! This doesn’t look right!

DISCLAIMER: Lets keep the LN vs LV vs Stanley etc…to a minimum.

Yes I called the folks at LN and they sent a replacement frog the next day and they were of course a pleasure to deal with.

Semperfi

-- -Redwood Falls MN


38 replies so far

View Dan's profile

Dan

3543 posts in 1625 days


#1 posted 04-06-2011 06:44 AM

I had to look at the pics for a min before I even noticed what I think it is that you are talking about… I guess I would say its a slight defect but does it effect the ability to move the frog at all? Looking at it I cant see how it would effect the use of the plane at all. I might just not be seeing something.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

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drewnahant

222 posts in 1834 days


#2 posted 04-06-2011 06:54 AM

It sounds like Dan is saying that it wouldnt be worth complaining if it doesnt effect function, and I expect this from a lot of people.

If it effects the use of the plane, it is definitely unacceptable, otherwise, I guess it shouldnt be a big deal, but with LN planes, they are more than a functional tool, they are a thing of beauty, and at their price, they better be perfect, so I wouldnt accept that kind of defect from them, even if it never effected a thing.

I am glad to hear that LN had such good customer service, I have never heard anything about their response to problems, which is probably a testament to their usual quality. Anyway, congratulations on your new tool!

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Dan

3543 posts in 1625 days


#3 posted 04-06-2011 05:25 PM

No no no… I didn’t say it was not worth complaining about… I was just curious if it was something that effected the use or just a cosmetic defect. Your right though, if your spending that kind of money on something you would expect it to be flawless..

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#4 posted 04-06-2011 05:33 PM

Totally unacceptable. Totally. Refund immediately. You paid a lot of money for that tool and shouldn’t have to even so much as debur something. Tell them you had a special project planned & they ruined it. Ask for a spare high angle frog, blades, etc. for your time. I sure would.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15780 posts in 2963 days


#5 posted 04-06-2011 05:37 PM

It looks to me as if the the way the left side is milled would limit the travel of the frog. At any rate, I would be upset to see something like this if I was paying LN prices.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#6 posted 04-06-2011 05:38 PM

^absolutely Charlie. The chances are that you’d never use the extreme limits of the frog adjustment but who cares, you should be allowed to adjust the frog over the full range. Bad mill, bad mill. Get a return with a bonus.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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TheDane

3972 posts in 2408 days


#7 posted 04-06-2011 05:55 PM

I would expect this from the slag they sell at the big box stores, but not from Lie Nielsen.

That being said, it sounds like LN’s customer service stepped up to the plate and made it right with you.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#8 posted 04-06-2011 06:00 PM

^I was so annoyed by the picture that I never read the rest of the text (my apologies). I think they should have offered him a spare frog/blade. Of course they owe him a new frog, that’s just standard customer service. I would have expected them to ripen it a bit.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Jonwilliam's profile

Jonwilliam

23 posts in 1361 days


#9 posted 04-06-2011 06:49 PM

The poor milling does not permit me to set the frog far enough forward to take a fine shaving. There is about 3/16” unused frog travel forward due to the machining. With the frog set back where it is more or less machined correctly I cannot seem to get the blade square in the mouth almost like it has a 5 degree scew to it. Could it be me? The frog? Blade? Sole? No matter where i adjust it i have to have the lateral adjustment lever all the way over to get the blade flat with the surface. I don’t know if i’m overlooking something for adjustment or not but these planes are pretty easy to set up correctly.

Upon closer inspection the pins that hold down the frog have a dent in them from the pointed hold down screw from when they tightened it down at the factory. The pins have that milled detent that the screw seats and since it couldn’t go down that extra 1/8” it just punched a divet in the side of the hold down pin.

The replacement frog should* be here today or tomorrow. I am going to call them about the pins and have them send me a new set…

As for them sending me something for my trouble I may. I really wanted to use it but its going on a week now and I wanted to use it to finish a gift for my son’s first birthday, which is today!

I may ask them for an extra blade or high angle frog but i’m not sure how I would go about asking that quite yet.

I’ll post some photos of the pins this evening. Thanks for the input folks!

Semperfi

-- -Redwood Falls MN

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#10 posted 04-06-2011 06:54 PM

I’d just tell them, look fellas, you’re a reputable company which is why I went with you for an important project. Now my project is delayed due to clear mechanical defects and I think I need to be compensated for my loss of use (I mean, they’ve had your money all this time! You wouldn’t have a defective brand new car in the shop for a week without a rental paid for). They’ll probably offer you a gift certificate. Counter with look, I’m not looking to gouge you but I think an * would be fair. Good luck.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#11 posted 04-06-2011 06:56 PM

and for the record, I’m no LN hater. I own several planes and chisels & I’ve never had a problem with either. I buy LN, like you probably did, because I want to pull the plane out of the box & start making shavings. You didn’t get to enjoy this luxury that you paid a premium for.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Bsmith's profile

Bsmith

318 posts in 1415 days


#12 posted 04-06-2011 07:23 PM

Do we really want to repay shoddy workmanship with dishonesty. I’m just saying…

-- Bryan

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Bertha

12951 posts in 1438 days


#13 posted 04-06-2011 07:32 PM

^what? Where’s the dishonesty? If I heard the story correctly, he had a project planned for a special birthday and it was delayed? I’m more than a bit offended by the suggestion that anything in my reply implied dishonesty. He lost out on the opportunity to use a tool he already PAID for and should be compensated.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View knothead's profile

knothead

155 posts in 2693 days


#14 posted 04-06-2011 11:39 PM

Am I missing something here?

I too have purchased LN products (love them by the way) and have paid their premium price, and believe me when I spend several hundred dollars for a hand tool it had better be right! and would expect them to make it so.

Having sad that, product manufacturing defects can and do slip by even the most meticulous retailers. So I have to ask, in what world does being the unfortunate recipient of a defective tool (that in the Original Posters own words was made right immediately by LN when they replaced the defective part ) entitle anyone to additional compensation? Expecting something for nothing or feeling that you somehow have the right to be reimbursed beyond that is unrealistic and more.

-- So Much Wood - So Little Time! --

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15780 posts in 2963 days


#15 posted 04-07-2011 12:08 AM

I probably wouldn’t go so far as to ask for something, but they really should offer a little compensation for the aggravation. Yes, defects can happen. But for the kind of money they ask for these things, it should have been caught in an inspection. Like Al said, the main reason to buy such an expensive plane is to be able to use it right out of the box, without a lot of tune-up and fussing over it. Jonwilliam paid top dollar for that privilege, and he was shortchanged.

Again, yes things go wrong, and yes customer service was willing to make it right. I’m not bashing the company. I’m just saying good PR would be to throw in a little extra bonus for his trouble.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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