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Titebond Glue Bleeding Through Veneer--Solutions?

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Forum topic by jayseedub posted 01-26-2018 04:33 PM 1544 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jayseedub

135 posts in 2085 days


01-26-2018 04:33 PM

Topic tags/keywords: veneer titebond glue bleeding bleed-through problems veneering lacewood lace wood

I just opened up my cauls, after veneering Lacewood to a Spanish Cedar substrate—and the Titebond Glue I’ve always used totally bled through the veneer. Do you have any suggestions for:

1) Rescuing these pieces so that they can be finished nicely?
2) Suggestions to prevent it on the next two pieces that I veneer?

Seems that the Lacewood veneer is extremely porous, since the grain is every-which-way. Would a contact cement be better in this circumstance?


10 replies so far

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

2397 posts in 1508 days


#1 posted 01-26-2018 04:45 PM

Not sure that you can fix that if the PVA glue went all the way through. You might want to consider using hot hide glue (hammered veneer technique). While there is some upfront cost and a small learning curve. The nice thing about hide glue is that you simply wash the glue off with water and a Scotch Bright pad and it is ready to finish. It is also reversible if you aren’t happy with the results. I used it to veneer a large modern style mirror (see my projects if interested) with a complex layout and it was a really satisfying process and results.

Checkout LJ Shipwright’s blogs and Youtube videos for tips.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Mario's profile

Mario

181 posts in 3516 days


#2 posted 01-26-2018 04:57 PM

I have used PVA for veneering spanish cedar by coating veneer and substrate, allow to dry, place two pieces together and use an iron on cotton setting, works every time and never seen any problems. As far as fixing what you have, only sanding will let you see how bad the PVA sipped through…..

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jayseedub

135 posts in 2085 days


#3 posted 01-26-2018 05:03 PM

Idea: Even though this won’t solve my current problem, in the future, what about first coating the exposed side of the veneer with dewaxed shellac, letting it dry, and THEN veneering it (un-shellaced side with the glue on it) to the substrate? There still could be “bleed-through,” but would the shellac stop it, effectively, from causing troubles with additional finishing?

Also—is there any sort of “adhesive tape” or “contact paper” that I could use to adhere a veneer to substrate? Of course, it has to be permanent and really good…

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jayseedub

135 posts in 2085 days


#4 posted 01-26-2018 05:09 PM



I have used PVA for veneering spanish cedar by coating veneer and substrate, allow to dry, place two pieces together and use an iron on cotton setting, works every time and never seen any problems. As far as fixing what you have, only sanding will let you see how bad the PVA sipped through…..

- Mario

How long do you let it dry? (This method seems revolutionary….!) Just ironing the two surfaces activates the glue—and it adheres quickly enough that no additional cauling/pressure is required?

I think you’re right about the sanding, and irreversability of my current situation…..

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

2397 posts in 1508 days


#5 posted 01-26-2018 05:14 PM

If the PVA is migrating through the grain/pores, I can’t see where shellac would help much. It might help prevent it from being on the surface but the veneer itself will still be saturated but not uniformly and you will still see areas where the glue is darkening the grain under the shellac. My theory anyway.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 3768 days


#6 posted 01-26-2018 05:17 PM

Take a look at liquid hide glue (you can make
your own or buy it) or plastic resin glue
(DAP Weldwood). Resin glue dries to a
hard brown but it doesn’t bleed out into
grain the way PVA glue will. It still may
cause finishing problems with something
like lacewood.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8070 posts in 2918 days


#7 posted 01-27-2018 12:25 AM

I do all my veneering (and just about everything else) with hide glue. I can see very few advantages to pva’s in general and lots of things hide glue does better. As Lazyman said, you can hammer veneer with hide glue and hide glue is easily removed before finishing.
It is also reversible in case of mistakes, can be ironed to re-glue bubbles, dries hard and does not creep, won’t recede or protrude from seams.
I prefer hot hide glue personally but liquid hide glue is an easier learning curve and has many of the advantages of the hot version. Notably it does not have the clampless “rub joint” glue ups and hammer veneering abilities of hot hide glue.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1117 posts in 2073 days


#8 posted 01-27-2018 01:24 AM

I know that it looks hopeless, but perhaps it is not. The glue has seeped through the pores and then spread out over the surface. It probably hasn’t saturated all of the veneer. Have a try at scraping the excess glue off and then sanding. If the veneer is thick enough (it won’t take too much) you should be able to remove the surface glue. Yes, there will still be glue that came through the pores, and that might impact some types of finishes, but not all.

I have used pva to apply carpathian elm burl veneer and that has huge pores on some of the eyes. Lots of squeeze through smeared out by a plastic sheet over the cauls. Cleaned up very nicely and finished well with Deft.

That was a long time ago and I would not do things the same way today, but I did manage to get away with it. Don’t give up on your piece, it may be salvageable.

View Mario's profile

Mario

181 posts in 3516 days


#9 posted 01-27-2018 02:51 AM

Actually just let it dry to the touch, you see, yellow glue happens among other things to be thermoplastic, and no, you don´t need any additional pressure, try it….and it is not new, a lot of veneering is done this way.
Check out “Easy Veneering with a Household Iron” by Mario Rodriguez at Fine Woodworking.

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splintergroup

2253 posts in 1343 days


#10 posted 01-27-2018 03:18 PM

PVA type glues designed for veneering have thickeners to help reduce the bleed through. They help, but some woods are just too ornery.

Some additional things to try on top of what was mentioned above are to minimize the amount of glue you apply and use a mesh net over the veneer surface. The mesh net will keep the veneer flat, but allow any bleed through to ball up instead of being spread flat by the top caul (veneering supplies has some info on this).

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