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Forum topic by BobCysyk posted 01-18-2018 02:00 PM 455 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BobCysyk

31 posts in 2965 days


01-18-2018 02:00 PM

Topic tags/keywords: jig question trick router guide

Hello Everyone,

It has been quite a while since I posted anything here. Now Here I am looking for some help

I have been asked to quote a job to build a processional cross (24” X 18”) like the one pictured below. I am trying to figure out how to route the groove that runs along the inside of the edge. I was thinking about placing a guide pin on my router table about 1/2” in from the bit and try to use the edge of the work piece and trace along the guide pin.

Any thoughts?

thanks,


15 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

451 posts in 69 days


#1 posted 01-18-2018 02:32 PM

Bob – make a practice cross out of pine or some similar inexpensive material.
make the template out of MDF or hardboard for the groove and trace the profile,
taking small bites at a time. start with 1/16” deep and get progressively deeper to see how it goes.
a new, very sharp carbide bit will work the best in all the opposing grains.
when you are comfortable with your work – proceed to the real one.
in some instances, I found it easier to make the template for the groove and cut the groove first then
bandsaw around the groove on the outside last to make sure to get the profile in proportion.
(the template must be perfect to start with).
how are your free-hand skills ??
if the groove needs to be black, it is the basic procedure of spray painting it with fast drying
rattle can flat black then sand down cleanly with a sander prior to cutting and routing the profile.

Edit: I am talking about holding the router by the handles and doing it by hand – not on a router table.

good luck !!

.

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BobCysyk

31 posts in 2965 days


#2 posted 01-18-2018 03:44 PM

thank You, John and I appreciate the clarification. My free hand skills are so, so at best. So, if I understand you correctly you are suggesting that I use a template and bushing rather than a guide pin?

Bob

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 498 days


#3 posted 01-18-2018 03:55 PM

.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

451 posts in 69 days


#4 posted 01-18-2018 03:59 PM

Bob asked:
“I am trying to figure out how to route the groove that runs along the inside of the edge.”

Carloz – please explain how the round-over bit can cut a groove in the cross

this is the issue in question:

I still stand by my suggestion to make the template for the groove and cut the groove first then
bandsaw around the groove on the outside last to make sure to get the profile in proportion.
it is a lot easier to fine-tune the cross from the outside edges vs trying to straighten up a crooked groove.
(the template must be perfect to start with).

.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2689 posts in 2203 days


#5 posted 01-18-2018 04:04 PM

^ How does a roundover bit accomplish what he’s looking to do?

View Rich's profile

Rich

2292 posts in 496 days


#6 posted 01-18-2018 05:32 PM

What John is suggesting is ideal. If you make the template such that the cross fits into it snugly, then with a 1/2” OD bushing and a 1/4” bit (round bead or 45º depending on the profile you want down in the groove), you will get a 1/8” shoulder between the edge of the groove and the outer edge of the cross. Go with a larger bushing if you wish that to be wider, or alternatively you can cut a shallower groove which will also result in a wider shoulder.

Of course the template has to be taller than the cross. If they are both 3/4” thick, then you can put some 1/4” thick blocks on the back of the template to raise it up. I’d also use some double stick tape to hold the cross down to the work surface for stability.

Rather than messing with spray paint for giving the groove color, I’d use glaze. Based on the color in your photo, some van dyke brown would do nicely.

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 498 days


#7 posted 01-18-2018 05:35 PM

For this and any similar projects:

View Loren's profile

Loren

9963 posts in 3554 days


#8 posted 01-18-2018 05:51 PM

That looks really tricky to get right on a
one-off.

I have an overarm router and I would probably
use that. Still, I’d have to work carefully to
keep the work properly aligned to the guide
pin to make a consistent groove.

An out-of-the-box approach I might consider
is making a hollow template and using a guide
bushing waste out the entire area inside. Then
cut out shop-made thick veneer to match the
depth of the groove and glue that inside.

I’d probably try to talk the client into another
decorative scheme personally.

The original may have been done on some kind
of copy tracer.

Violin makers use a tool called a purfling cutter.
A luthier’s Gramil does the same function. Both
require some skill and you’d have to still get
the waste out between the cuts.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

451 posts in 69 days


#9 posted 01-18-2018 05:51 PM

depending on what species of wood that is used for the final project,
the slower a paint (stain, glaze, etc) dries, the more chance it has to
creep into the fibers outside the groove and will look shoddy and homemade.
to avoid the flea market look of a routed item, I prefer the fasted drying color that is available to prevent
color migration and wicking into the wood fibers.

for such an important item as the Procession Cross, personally, I would use a dark wood
such as walnut or mahogany and gild the groove with 23k XXX gold leaf. but that is another skill set altogether.
this also depends on the budget of the client and its intended use. for a private home or small church just for
decoration purposes to hang on the wall, the price (and craftsmanship) could be less than an actual cross
that would be used in official religious services.

I happened to run across this very cross on the net and its history at:
http://www.holycrossolivebranch.org/home/about-our-little-church-1/an-object-ive-history/crosses/processional-crosses

in the description, it says: “At the base of cross you can see a small repair,
indicating where the pole broke away from the cross”. (this was probably caused by using a wooden dowel).

so with today’s modern methods of fabrication, I would make two identical crosses. I would
cut a 1/2” groove down the middle of each back from top to bottom for a piece of 3/8” all-thread
and epoxy the assembly together with enough all-thread available out of the bottom of the cross
to be inserted into the carrying pole to prevent any breakage or separation.
this would give you the option of the groove on both sides or just one for actual procession use.

.

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BobCysyk

31 posts in 2965 days


#10 posted 01-18-2018 06:00 PM

The customer has specified red oak with a mahogany stain. I am less worried about the stain colors than I am the darn groove. The method that John has described, although time consuming, appears to give the best chances for success. I had not considered making an “inside” template.

Thanks,

Bob

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BobCysyk

31 posts in 2965 days


#11 posted 01-18-2018 06:11 PM

Hey Carloz,
What is that? I a have never seen one before.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

451 posts in 69 days


#12 posted 01-18-2018 06:30 PM

Carloz – do you have this tool? can you show a photo of it in use?
what machine is it used with?

View Rich's profile

Rich

2292 posts in 496 days


#13 posted 01-18-2018 06:38 PM


- John Smith

It’s an attachment used for trimming edge banding flush. Looks like a really crappy one though, and probably is designed to fit only one model/brand or router. Here’s a higher quality version, although it still isn’t as good a choice as a bushing because it would require keeping the bit and bearing at exactly 90º to the edge of the workpiece.

https://www.infinitytools.com/mpower-combination-router-base-plate-2346

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

451 posts in 69 days


#14 posted 01-18-2018 07:27 PM

thanks Rich – I would have never guessed it.

it looks as though it works well for the purpose in which it was intended.
I have cut a lot of banding with the common (wrong) tools
like kitchen knife, box cutter, jack plane, and so forth and so on.

View BobCysyk's profile

BobCysyk

31 posts in 2965 days


#15 posted 01-18-2018 10:22 PM

I like the hollow template part.

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