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Please help with dust collector purchase advice

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Forum topic by Eddie33 posted 01-12-2018 04:36 AM 3263 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Eddie33

15 posts in 338 days


01-12-2018 04:36 AM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collector

A couple months ago I decided to try woodworking so I bought some equipment. I bought a Cutech 8” jointer, DeWalt 735 planer,and a Ridgid belt/spindle sander. I already had a table saw, compound miter saw and various other tools as I have construction experience. I am using a 6 HP shopvac with a dust deputy and feel it isn’t enough to do what I want. My shop is most of my two car garage in the basement and I would like things cleaner than it currently is. I have quite a bit of sawdust and very fine dust that the shopvac and dust deputy didn’t collect and I am constantly emptying the five gallon bucket while using the thickness planer on rough cut lumber. I have searched the site for several days and just get can’t get a good understanding of what I need. I haven’t had any previous woodworking experience and don’t know anything about collectors other than I really need one. I would like to spend around $600 but would go more than that if I could find one that would be worth the extra expense. I do have 220 in the garage so that’s not a limiting factor. I would also like to find something that’s already capable of doing a good job, I don’t mind adding a filter if needed but would rather not go the cheap route and add a bunch of mods as I already have more projects than I can handle at the moment. I would really appreciate any and all advice, I don’t want to make a mistake on this purchase and would like to get it right the first time. Also, I forgot to mention that I bought a WEN air filter yesterday so that should help out some.


20 replies so far

View dbw's profile

dbw

208 posts in 1837 days


#1 posted 01-12-2018 03:51 PM

Eddie,
I have a setup very similar to yours except I don’t have a basement. I purchased a Delta 760 dust collector (DC) in 2009 for $400 and I upgraded it from a bag to a pleated 2 micron filter in 2016. There are quite a few quality dust collectors on the market. Jet, Laguna, and Powermatic, among others, all make them. One can spend from several hundred $ to over $5000. You can also pay a company such as Oneida Air Systems to design a DC system for you. There are basically 2 flavors of DC’s: 1 and 2 stage. A 1 stage DC puts everything into one collection bag. A 2 stage DC has a separator which will put the large chips into what I call a “trash can” and the fine dust into the collection bag. If you do a lot of jointing and/or planing a 2 stage will make life easier for you because it is easier to empty the can than empty the bag. My DC is a 1 stage and since I do wood working as a hobby I empty the bag once a year at most. One important note: Empty the bag when it is 1/2 way full. DC’s suck less as the bag fills up. Do yourself a favor and get a DC with a pleated filter instead of a bag. Also having an air cleaner helps. As far as hose size is concerned the smaller the hose the less CFM you can pull. For example: I have the Cutech 8” jointer as well. It comes with a 4” dust port and a 2.5” adapter. I use the 4” dust port. By the way what do you think of the Cutech jointer? I like mine except the fence is cheap and flimsy. There are purists out there who poo-poo benchtop tools but since I have space constraints some of my tools have to be small and ALL my tools have to be mobile. I hope this helps.

-- measure 3 times, cut once

View d38's profile

d38

108 posts in 463 days


#2 posted 01-12-2018 05:06 PM

Eddie,
Like everything, go big if able ($$$ and room in shop being obvious limitations)
I surfed the internet, and this site, quite a bit last fall when I decided to add a DC for my next wood project.
I got a Grizzley 2hp with the bag (220v). I ran 6” 26 ga snaplock HVAC all the way to the miter saw, and to 6-to-4 wyes for table saw and jointer/planer/router table.
For a few weeks I ran 10’ of 4” flex hose to the miter saw. After getting the 6” HVAC hooked up, the increased airflow was amazing, I mean, wow, I couldn’t believe the difference. So if the DC has a 6” inlet, run 6” as far as possible.
I almost went the pleated filter route, but decided on a American Filter bag custom made that goes to my 10’ ceiling—about 3x taller than the factory bag.

Do you want it mobile and 1 or 2 flex hoses to move as needed? Or a stationary system with some hard pipe and some flex hose to the units?
A great comment I read on this forum was that the easier the system is to use, the more you’ll use it (instead of making a “few” cuts without the DC on the tool). I have 25” of HVAC, two 6” aluminum blast gates, two 4” gates, and two 4” plastic. But its all there and easy to use.

I learned a ton from all the helpful people on this forum, so search, read, ask, and you’ll end up with a nice system.

View AlmostRetired's profile

AlmostRetired

219 posts in 915 days


#3 posted 01-12-2018 05:29 PM

Good luck with your decision. I am in the midst of upgrading my HF Dust Collector.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1240 posts in 2196 days


#4 posted 01-12-2018 06:01 PM

I went with the harbor freight 2ho DC and Wynn filter. I added a trash can separator too. Works for me and about $400 total.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

1914 posts in 2549 days


#5 posted 01-12-2018 06:23 PM

The trash can separator is a good way to knock out the big stuff. I use one in front of my DC when I’m planning on the DW735.

You might also consider making a shop built air cleaner to catch the fine dust that manages to evade the dust collector. Basically, a box fan with a HEPA furnace filter on it will do. There are plenty of folks that have posted how they made theirs.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

109 posts in 657 days


#6 posted 01-12-2018 07:31 PM

Eddie,

As mentioned above you need to determine if you are going to make it mobile and connect to each tool as you use it. I sold my single stage DC for a cyclone because I was not disciplined enough to hassle with moving hoses around for a couple cuts here or quick pass on the planner, etc.. If you can the HF DC is a cheap first step, but you will still want some kind of separator to keep the filter cleaner longer (the Super Dust Deputy seems to provide the best separation for add on separators).

Anything you add to your DC input, ducting, hoses, separators, etc. adds resistance and reduces performance. This requires a larger machine to overcome those additions. If you go the stationary route, you need to understand your layout and where you can place the DC. Too many people will buy a HF DC or other smaller DC (any 1.5HP) and then run 4” PVC to their machines because it is an inexpensive way to start. The problem is the 4” pipe strangles what little air the machine can produce. Will it move air? Will it be better than a shop vac? Sure most of the time, but it is like driving a car on the rims. It works but not very efficiently. And you have already mentioned your dust issue.

For the stationary approach, you need to determine your longest run and what kind of fittings you will use. Then, the easiest way to determine how much resistance you have is to plug in your layout in Bill Pentz’s spreadsheet (found in the ‘Ducting’ tab on his site http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/Cyclone/staticcalc_faqs.cfm)

Based on your comments it seems like a 2-3HP cyclone will meet your needs Since you are in a garage I assume height is not an issue and you should stay away from the short cyclones as they can not perform as well as taller units from Oneida, Grizzly and Clearvue.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you do.

Carl

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1240 posts in 2196 days


#7 posted 01-12-2018 07:53 PM

Actually, adding a pleated cartridge type filter DECREASES resistance. Those bags have very little surface area and foul up quickly, causing loss of air flow. The filters have much more area, plug slower and operate better. With my Wynn filter and trash can, I have to pinch back the blast gate on my HF DC to avoid tripping the breaker on startup. This is a sign it over amps, which means it is moving more air and the motor is calling for more amps than design. Was not a problem with the original set up.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View GraceAndDrew's profile

GraceAndDrew

34 posts in 419 days


#8 posted 01-12-2018 08:32 PM

I am doing the same process as I write this:

Shop Fox 2HP – 220v – (same as Grizzly but I found it cheaper online. Try Northern Tool or Optics Planet. I ordered from Optics Planet because I had a coupon but I think Northern Tool has free shipping). – It has a 12” steel, reverse impeller and 6” inlets.
- 2 year warranty

Super Dust Deputy XL

Wynn Environmental 9L300NANO. Dick Wynn himself told me this would be a great filter for my setup.

Big plastic barrel.

Good luck!

-- Grace & Drew Woodworking, http://graceanddrew.com

View Eddie33's profile

Eddie33

15 posts in 338 days


#9 posted 01-13-2018 08:47 AM

Thanks for the information, that helps. As for the Cutech, I do like it for short boards. I just built a farmhouse style table out of oak and my boards length were right at 9’ at the time I ran them through the jointer. This wasn’t an easy task for me, perhaps someone with more experience could have done it easier. I do think the table length didn’t help any, but I finally got them right. I would really like to move up to something with over a 70” bed as it looks like I will be doing longer boards very soon but I need to get my dust situation fixed before I get any more equipment.


Eddie,
I have a setup very similar to yours except I don t have a basement. I purchased a Delta 760 dust collector (DC) in 2009 for $400 and I upgraded it from a bag to a pleated 2 micron filter in 2016. There are quite a few quality dust collectors on the market. Jet, Laguna, and Powermatic, among others, all make them. One can spend from several hundred $ to over $5000. You can also pay a company such as Oneida Air Systems to design a DC system for you. There are basically 2 flavors of DC s: 1 and 2 stage. A 1 stage DC puts everything into one collection bag. A 2 stage DC has a separator which will put the large chips into what I call a “trash can” and the fine dust into the collection bag. If you do a lot of jointing and/or planing a 2 stage will make life easier for you because it is easier to empty the can than empty the bag. My DC is a 1 stage and since I do wood working as a hobby I empty the bag once a year at most. One important note: Empty the bag when it is 1/2 way full. DC s suck less as the bag fills up. Do yourself a favor and get a DC with a pleated filter instead of a bag. Also having an air cleaner helps. As far as hose size is concerned the smaller the hose the less CFM you can pull. For example: I have the Cutech 8” jointer as well. It comes with a 4” dust port and a 2.5” adapter. I use the 4” dust port. By the way what do you think of the Cutech jointer? I like mine except the fence is cheap and flimsy. There are purists out there who poo-poo benchtop tools but since I have space constraints some of my tools have to be small and ALL my tools have to be mobile. I hope this helps.

- dbw


View Eddie33's profile

Eddie33

15 posts in 338 days


#10 posted 01-13-2018 08:51 AM

I probably need something mobile. I have a feeling I will be moving things around as I notice what layout works best as I get more into woodworking. I am looking at Grizzly collectors as well, they seem to be a good value.


Eddie,
Like everything, go big if able ($$$ and room in shop being obvious limitations)
I surfed the internet, and this site, quite a bit last fall when I decided to add a DC for my next wood project.
I got a Grizzley 2hp with the bag (220v). I ran 6” 26 ga snaplock HVAC all the way to the miter saw, and to 6-to-4 wyes for table saw and jointer/planer/router table.
For a few weeks I ran 10 of 4” flex hose to the miter saw. After getting the 6” HVAC hooked up, the increased airflow was amazing, I mean, wow, I couldn t believe the difference. So if the DC has a 6” inlet, run 6” as far as possible.
I almost went the pleated filter route, but decided on a American Filter bag custom made that goes to my 10 ceiling—about 3x taller than the factory bag.

Do you want it mobile and 1 or 2 flex hoses to move as needed? Or a stationary system with some hard pipe and some flex hose to the units?
A great comment I read on this forum was that the easier the system is to use, the more you ll use it (instead of making a “few” cuts without the DC on the tool). I have 25” of HVAC, two 6” aluminum blast gates, two 4” gates, and two 4” plastic. But its all there and easy to use.

I learned a ton from all the helpful people on this forum, so search, read, ask, and you ll end up with a nice system.

- d38


View dbw's profile

dbw

208 posts in 1837 days


#11 posted 01-13-2018 02:01 PM

I agree with bbasiaga in terms of pleated filter vs. bag. Wynn Environmental has several models from which to choose and they make adapter kits so one can make their filters fit just about any DC out there. My Delta came with a bag and I had to “beat the bag” with a badminton racket from time to time. This process spewed large amount of fine dust all over my shop. AHHHHHH!!

-- measure 3 times, cut once

View Eddie33's profile

Eddie33

15 posts in 338 days


#12 posted 01-14-2018 01:54 AM

I have narrowed it down to three units thanks to the points of consideration I received from you guys.
Oneida mini gorilla
Laguna c I flux
Grizzly G0703

All these are cyclone units and portable which should suit my needs since I will only be using one machine at a time and could be changing the layout of my work area as time goes on. Does anybody have feedback on these units or does one appear to be superior to the others? They are all close in price range and I would like to get the best one of these three unless there is a better option that I missed.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 792 days


#13 posted 01-14-2018 02:33 AM

HF 2hp dust collector is a no brainer. I would buy a better bug for it but I would skip can filters. Those work real well…till they clog. Manufacturer recommends blowing it with 60psi from ouside. I do not buy that.
And one more thing, dust collector is the most important too in an urban garage shop. You simply cannot do woodworking with power tools without it.

View Hermit's profile

Hermit

210 posts in 1526 days


#14 posted 01-14-2018 04:38 AM

Eddie it sounds like you and I have a lot of the same tools. I have the Jet vortex cone. Does a great job. Keep mine in a closet but it does have wheels on it.

-- I'm like the farmer's duck. If it don't rain, I'll walk.

View Runner's profile

Runner

76 posts in 974 days


#15 posted 01-14-2018 07:40 PM

I’ve had the Oneida Mini Gorilla since last summer. Can’t say enough good about it, it’s a quality dust collector (made in the USA). When I was shopping for a dust collector, I wanted portability and HEPA filtration. Those BBQ legs on the mini gorilla are rock solid, and since the footprint is small, it’s very easy to move around.

-- Kjell - Eau Claire WI

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