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Bevel-Up in a Bevel-Down Plane?

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Forum topic by HorizontalMike posted 03-17-2011 04:08 PM 1854 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HorizontalMike

7154 posts in 2379 days


03-17-2011 04:08 PM

Topic tags/keywords: bevel up bevel down scraper smoother fore plane

I have two old #418 Fore planes and am considering setting one of them up as a scraper/smoother. I was looking at the VeritasĀ® Scraping Plane Insert but had a brain fart and began thinking about just reversing the blade’s bevel on my #418 (45 + 25 = 70 degrees) and using THAT as a scraper/smoother.

Has anyone done this with success?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."


10 replies so far

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4456 posts in 3426 days


#1 posted 03-17-2011 04:30 PM

It doesn’t work like that. The scraper plane doesn’t have an edge like a plane. It is a flat surface that has been honed and burnished to form a “curl” that scrapes the surface.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4541 posts in 2540 days


#2 posted 03-17-2011 04:36 PM

I scraper blade really needs to be tilted forward to work properly. The cutting action with a scraper comes from the burr. I could be wrong, but I don’t think taking your bevel up to 70 degrees will work very well.

In my personal experience, I prefer using a card scraper. I though I would like a scraping plane and I bought one but I have never gotten the feel for it and I have never gotten favorable results.

For me, scraping is a “feel thing”. When you have the scraper in the right position it just feels right. That’s why I like card scrapers (except they do get hot).

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7154 posts in 2379 days


#3 posted 03-17-2011 05:07 PM

So the VeritasĀ® Scraping Plane Insert would be the way to go then? Here are the instructions from Lee Valley that show the scraper blade cut with a 45-degree angle, quite interesting.

It sure seems like you could grind a blade with a 45-50degree angle, reverse it, and then hook it to get a ~95degree angle like a typical scraper. I guess it would not flex like the Veritas version though…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheWoodNerd's profile

TheWoodNerd

288 posts in 2657 days


#4 posted 03-17-2011 05:51 PM

At that price, it’s hard to beat

-- The Wood Nerd -- http://www.workshopaholic.net

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16243 posts in 3684 days


#5 posted 03-17-2011 06:24 PM

I think I understand where you are going with approximating the proper angle. The big difference I see is the thickness of the blade (only .016 for the scraper blade as opposed to a much thicker plane iron).

To me, it’s sort of like comparing apples and oranges. Your idea might yield something useful. If you’ve got a blade you don’t mind experimenting with, give it a try. I just suspect it will behave differently from the scraper attachment would. I wonder about steel hardness, and whether or not you can actually burnish a hook on a plane blade as you can on a scraper blade.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Dan's profile

Dan

3630 posts in 2346 days


#6 posted 03-17-2011 06:31 PM

wow, I never knew they made a insert that you can use in an old plane. I cant answer your question but thanks for the link. I may get one of these.

-- Dan - "Collector of Hand Planes"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7154 posts in 2379 days


#7 posted 03-17-2011 07:05 PM

Charlie,
The hardness of the blade might be an issue and I hadn’t thought of that. BTW, Veritas also sells a thicker 0.024” blade for this insert as well. And yeah, dedicating a blade is also a question. Not sure I want to re-bevel either of my old Sargent or Stanley Sweetheart blades and I sure don’t want to mess with my new Hock blade! And besides, it looks like buying the Veritas insert will cost no more than a replacement blade costs anyways. And the insert has the benefit of flexing under pressure so that you don’t dig in and tear out. I think I am going to like having a long scraper, the more I think about it. Thanks…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16243 posts in 3684 days


#8 posted 03-17-2011 07:58 PM

If you buy it, let us know how you like it. It’s a pretty small investment if it works as advertised.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Gofor's profile

Gofor

470 posts in 3252 days


#9 posted 03-18-2011 02:51 AM

Don’t know, but thought it interesting that Lie-Nielsen sells a “90 degree” blade for their Low-angle jack that is called a “scraper blade”. With a 12 degree bed, I do not know if the 90 degree blade is the composite angle (90) or just a square bevel (102). To get the same angle, you may be able to just raise the bevel on yours from 25 degrees to more like 50.

I would be concerned about a 25 degree bevel chipping out on the back side as there is no supporting metal after the edge like with a bevel down configuration.

Just a thought

Go

-- Go http://ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=730

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7154 posts in 2379 days


#10 posted 03-18-2011 06:19 PM

Hey Charlie, Dan, and others,
Just ordered the Scraper Insert from Lee Valley and got their free shipping (free shipping on >$40 purchases from 4/18-28/2011) since I also ordered the thicker blade. Total came to $40.40 so if you are considering buying one of these to convert one of your old hand plane restorations into a dedicated scraper, then now is the time to jump.

That free shipping is like getting that second scraper blade for free, IMO.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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