LumberJocks

Shop Fox W1674 2HP shaper?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by William Shelley posted 12-19-2017 07:31 PM 403 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


12-19-2017 07:31 PM

Hi all,

I find myself needing a shaper and I browsed around on craigslist. I was ready to go pick up an unbranded taiwanese shaper mfg in 1985, for $200, when I found a Shop Fox W1674 for sale for $400. It appears to be in excellent shape, but only comes with the 1/2” spindle, not the 3/4” and I’ll have to buy the router bit collet separately. This unit was mfg in 2005, and the list price on Grizzly’s website is about $1000. Is $400 a good deal?

I’ve already made arrangements to go pick this unit up tonight but I can back out if it’s junk.

I’m probably not going to be doing any doors or running really large cutters on it, but I need either a shaper or a router table & a new router. This seems like a really good “starter” shaper, and I’m pretty close to cost of a new router + router table.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective


12 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

10476 posts in 3670 days


#1 posted 12-19-2017 07:57 PM

For running router bits it should be fine
and will outlast a router if you use it a lot.

That said 2hp is pretty light power for a
a shaper. I’ve used a shaper as a router
table before and there’s no big downside
to it imo.

I had a Shop Fox 3hp shaper for awhile. It
was alright. The cast iron fence was robust
but heavy and making sacrificial faces for
it was complicated by the way it was designed
in some way… I just used an MDF router
table fence I had made.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


#2 posted 12-19-2017 08:33 PM



For running router bits it should be fine
and will outlast a router if you use it a lot.

That said 2hp is pretty light power for a
a shaper. I ve used a shaper as a router
table before and there s no big downside
to it imo.

I had a Shop Fox 3hp shaper for awhile. It
was alright. The cast iron fence was robust
but heavy and making sacrificial faces for
it was complicated by the way it was designed
in some way… I just used an MDF router
table fence I had made.

- Loren

Thanks. There are some other shapers on craigslist that I was drooling over but I don’t have space for them nor can I afford them… A 10HP Griggio shaper with sliding table and 1-1/4” solid spindle sure would be really nice though.

If 2HP is not enough to run “real” profile cutters, maybe I shouldn’t worry about buying the 3/4” spindle for this, and just sticking to the 1/2” router bit collet?

Should I look at changing out the pulley for a larger one on the motor shaft, to get a higher RPM on the spindle?

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View Loren's profile

Loren

10476 posts in 3670 days


#3 posted 12-19-2017 08:43 PM

If you want to get into “real” shaper cutters
I would hold out for something with a bigger
motor. There may be reasons to use smaller
shaper cutters for cutting profiles but I think
router bits have replaced them. Router bits
are apparently cheaper to manufacture.

I found 10,000 rpm adequate for use with router
bits. I had no complaint about the finish
quality of the cuts. It was no better nor worse
than cuts made at full router speed on a table.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


#4 posted 12-21-2017 07:05 PM

Update:

I picked up the shaper on Tuesday night. It looks like it’s in great condition, very clean, seems almost new.

Since it only came with the 1/2” spindle, I’m going to order the 3/4” from Grizzly and I already ordered the router bit collet as well.

However I see that the now-discontinued Shop Fox W1702 unit has an identical spindle cartridge and drawbar setup, and that machine included 1/2”, 3/4”, and 1” spindles. If I could source the 1” spindle replacement part, what are the chances that it might fit in my W1674?

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View Loren's profile

Loren

10476 posts in 3670 days


#5 posted 12-21-2017 07:11 PM

Maybe, but I think you’ll find 3/4” bore
shaper cutters more affordable than 1”
bore ones. I’m not knocking the larger
bore, but 2hp isn’t a lot to swing big
cutters.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


#6 posted 12-22-2017 04:30 PM

I’m not sure if this is an anomaly, but just looking around, the prices of 3/4-bore vs 1-1/4 bore seem to be pretty similar, with 1-1/4 bore cutters actually winning the price game in some cases.

Amana 1-1/4 bore lock miter cutter, $74: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4OIEU

Amana 3/4 bore lock miter cutter, $124: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4NQAW

Amana 1-1/4 bore finger joint cutter, $110: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035N390C

Amana 3/4-bore finger joint cutter, $118: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P4JM14

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View Loren's profile

Loren

10476 posts in 3670 days


#7 posted 12-22-2017 06:21 PM

Perhaps I was mistaken. I sold my shaper
a few years back because all I ever used
it for was a router table. I have a few shaper
cutters but didn’t really get into it.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


#8 posted 12-22-2017 09:03 PM

I ordered this spindle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005W0WCQS

It’s for the W1702 but every picture/diagram I can find shows that the method of attachment to the spindle cartridge is the same as on the W1674.

Sorry for my noobish questions in this thread, but this is my first shaper. I’ve only used my dad’s powermatic 3hp shaper a little bit, which has a 1” solid spindle, and he uses 1-1/4” cutters with t-bushings.

Since I’d like to avoid “wasting” money on tooling, my thoughts were that wherever possible, I should buy 1-1/4” cutters and bush them out. That way, when I eventually upgrade to a bigger unit, which might even be in a year or two, I can reuse all my cutters.

From what I’ve read, it’s not a good idea to try and swing too big of a diameter of cutter on a lighter-duty machine like mine. I get that, it puts a lot of stress on everything. However, looking at the options available for tooling, I see that the Amana finger joint cutter with a 1-1/4” bore has a 3” diameter, whereas the cut diameter of the 3/4” bore version of the same cutter is only smaller by 1/8”. Which leads me to believe that in that example, there’s literally no difference as far as the machine operation is concerned with the two cutters.

A 1” spindle has about 78% more cross sectional area than a 3/4” spindle, 0.785 sq in compared to 0.441 sq in. So the 1” spindle should be much stiffer than the 3/4” spindle, which makes it a better candidate for bushing up to 1-1/4”.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

944 posts in 517 days


#9 posted 12-23-2017 03:35 AM

Make sure the large 1-1/4” bore cutters will fit inside the guard before you invest in that tooling. The guard on my 2 hp PM shaper would probably not allow larger diameter 1-1/4” bore cutters to swing freely. The Shop Fox may be different.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View jar944's profile

jar944

127 posts in 1460 days


#10 posted 12-23-2017 07:24 AM


I ordered this spindle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005W0WCQS

It s for the W1702 but every picture/diagram I can find shows that the method of attachment to the spindle cartridge is the same as on the W1674.

Sorry for my noobish questions in this thread, but this is my first shaper. I ve only used my dad s powermatic 3hp shaper a little bit, which has a 1” solid spindle, and he uses 1-1/4” cutters with t-bushings.

Since I d like to avoid “wasting” money on tooling, my thoughts were that wherever possible, I should buy 1-1/4” cutters and bush them out. That way, when I eventually upgrade to a bigger unit, which might even be in a year or two, I can reuse all my cutters.

From what I ve read, it s not a good idea to try and swing too big of a diameter of cutter on a lighter-duty machine like mine. I get that, it puts a lot of stress on everything. However, looking at the options available for tooling, I see that the Amana finger joint cutter with a 1-1/4” bore has a 3” diameter, whereas the cut diameter of the 3/4” bore version of the same cutter is only smaller by 1/8”. Which leads me to believe that in that example, there s literally no difference as far as the machine operation is concerned with the two cutters.

A 1” spindle has about 78% more cross sectional area than a 3/4” spindle, 0.785 sq in compared to 0.441 sq in. So the 1” spindle should be much stiffer than the 3/4” spindle, which makes it a better candidate for bushing up to 1-1/4”.

- William Shelley

It’s the quill and bearings you need to look at when deciding if the shaper can (or should) accept a larger spindle. The interchangeable spindles are weakest at the connection to the quill. That 1” spindle is held by a .6” stub taper. Stick to 3/4 tooling. 1” doesn’t exist in quantity. 1.25” is industry std and therefore cheaper.

I bought 1.25” tooling when I only had a 3hp shaper just so I didn’t have to upgrade later. However Later was only 4 months after I bought the 3hp when I upgraded to a 1.25” 5hp machine

View sawdustdad's profile

sawdustdad

354 posts in 907 days


#11 posted 12-23-2017 01:35 PM

I have a 3hp Delta shaper with all the spindles and the collet. Forget using a shaper with router bits. You don’t have enough rpms to run a router bit properly. I run the 3/4 inch spindle and have found cutters to do everything I need with that size spindle. I’m not a production shop, just a hobbyist, so that probably makes a difference.

Grizzly sells shaper cutters that are pretty good.

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

572 posts in 1491 days


#12 posted 12-26-2017 06:16 PM

My experiment failed – the 1” spindle for the W1702 does not fit my W1674. As jar944 mentioned, the attachment point is the weak link and on the larger w1702 shaper, it has a larger diameter stub taper.

So I guess I will probably stick with 3/4 bore cutters and 1/2” shank router bits.

I did try a small 1/2” shank router bit in the collet, and the shaper running at 10,000 RPM produced an excellent cut. I realize that everyone has different experiences, but so far I see no reason why this shaper would be inferior for running router bits.

One thing that I was thinking about is that the RPMs that a router develops are no-load speeds. If I run a handheld router at 20k rpm no-load speed, but the motor slows down to 7500rpm when taking a heavy cut, but the shaper only slows from 10k to 9k rpm taking the same heavy cut, then it stands to reason that the shaper will produce a better quality cut anyway.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com