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Forum topic by Lou Penta posted 1134 days ago 1796 views 0 times favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Lou Penta

8 posts in 1417 days


1134 days ago

I am in the process of setting up a dust collection system and I have used the publication “Dust Collection Basics” as aa reference. In this pub it says that if you use plastic ductwork you should run a copper wire through the duct and ground to each machine the duct is used at to prevent spark created by static electricity . My question is, can you just attach the wire to an outside ground?

-- Lou, Florida


24 replies so far

View Pop's profile

Pop

419 posts in 2444 days


#1 posted 1134 days ago

The whole grounding question is a sorce of great debate. Most pro grounding folks go with looping the wire around the outside of the pipe. They also say to ground the wire to the dust collector which is to be grounded to the electric source. Not each machine. A large majority of anti grounding folks say don’t bother with grounding at all. There are many experts who have researched this and say static spark explosion in a small woodshop is impossible. I’m designing a new shop and I’m going to ground the darn thing. As one expert I talked to said “if it’s a one in a million chance you might just be the millionth”.

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3421 posts in 2161 days


#2 posted 1134 days ago

Lou—I am with Pop on this one. The chance of a fire (or explosion) is very small, indeed, but solid state devices like computers and other electronics are sensitive to electro-static discharge.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Lou Penta's profile

Lou Penta

8 posts in 1417 days


#3 posted 1134 days ago

Thanks for the input. Now for another question, the pub I mentioned also states that for plastic (PVC,Etc) ducts you have to run the wire on the inside of the duct and for extra safty around the outside, seems like a lot of copper wire to me. Is it over kill?

-- Lou, Florida

View handyman_pk's profile

handyman_pk

46 posts in 2143 days


#4 posted 1134 days ago

i don’t know its appropriate to ask question in this post or i should start new post. its related with dust collection pipes so i decided to post it here.

dose the hight of pipe running along walls effects the dust suction or i can mount it on floor? usually i saw it is higher then head

-- when you lose, Don't lose lesson

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TheDane

3421 posts in 2161 days


#5 posted 1134 days ago

Lou—That’s also sometimes a pretty hot topic. IMHO, there are as many downsides to running the copper inside the pipe as there are upsides. Chips and debris can get hung up on the wire (perhaps leading to a clogged pipe).

Check out this thread ( http://lumberjocks.com/topics/24006 ) for more info an divergent views.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Brrman's profile

Brrman

59 posts in 1170 days


#6 posted 1134 days ago

Lou – I would not bother with the copper on the inside.

-- "Being a perfectionist does not make one perfect..."

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6675 posts in 1412 days


#7 posted 1134 days ago

A.) For those that are static-phobic then spend the extra and run metal ducts. Problem solved and everything is grounded.

B.) For the vast majority who always claim to be broke, poor, can’t afford, are cheap SOBs, etc. then run PVC and skip the wire inside. Problem ignored.

Both choices work. My 2-cents…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Lou Penta

8 posts in 1417 days


#8 posted 1134 days ago

Well I certainly got a good responce on my question on groounding my DC, a lot of opinions and some good facts. I guess I’ll have to make a choice soon but I have one more question on the grounding of PVC ducts,someone mentioned that it wasn’t necessary to use bare coper wire on PVC as it is a insulator and the small amount of insulation on a covered wire wouldn’t have an effect on cancelling the static charge of a duct with a coil wrap on the outside of the PVC, how many are in agreement with this.

-- Lou, Florida

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6675 posts in 1412 days


#9 posted 1134 days ago

OK Lou, I’m confused by your last. Why would you use an insulated wire to wrap your PVC duct? You may need to reword your question, or I made need to quit drinking to better understand (a real possibility 8-) ). If you are grounding, nix the insulation.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Mark E.'s profile

Mark E.

335 posts in 2240 days


#10 posted 1134 days ago

One thing to remember. You cannot ground an insulator. PVC is an insulator.

The only thing that will ever be accomplished by running wires inside or outside ( or both) of pvc pipes is the minor reduction of static electric charge. This will bleed off some of the static build up form the movement of the dust through the PVC, but only a small amount of the static.

The chances of a fire or explosion from failure to add the ‘grounding’ wires is practically nill. You may, and a,most certainly will, get a static shock from a pvc duct system, but you probably won’t explode, nor will the wood dust.

The only way to insure that your DC system is fully grounded is to use metal pipe. The bottom line is, with metal pipe you probably won’t get a static discharge shock. With PVC pipe, you most likely will get a static discharge shock.

-- Mark

View dand's profile

dand

15 posts in 1479 days


#11 posted 1134 days ago

I have ran my dust collection through 4” pvc under the floor of the shop. It changes to 4” flexible hose to each tool above and i have no copper ground wire at all. I remember seeing an episode of myth busters and they could’nt explode an inclosure useing the saw dust cloud approach.
Sometimes you’ll get a static electric shock but i have found that usually from useing the plastic collection bag. I am now useing the fabric bags top and bottom this gives more ventilation anyway. until i can figure out a way just to straight exhaust outside into a trailer or something without covering my garden with dust.
I think a more important worry is hitting a nail or metal and ending up with an ember in your bag to slowly ignite probably when you are in bed!
Hope this helps.
Dan.

-- Dand Kaslo

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Bigdogs117

1853 posts in 2118 days


#12 posted 1134 days ago

I held off purchasing a dust collection system due to this very issue for 2 years. I couldn’t decided which route to go. I found there are lots of people with PVC piping and never had problems. Bill Pentz from Clearvue Cyclones also studied this issue and concluded that in the home shop….under 1500 cfm… wouldn’t create a fire or explosion hazard. I went with plastic and (so far) haven’t regretted it. I don’t fear there will be an fire or explosion now that I have used it for a while. Just my 2 cents. I would use metal duct work rather than stringing bare wire thru your system though.

-- Rusty

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Resurrected

671 posts in 1189 days


#13 posted 1134 days ago

They make aluminum tape that is a conductor. Not a great one but is. Tape it in the inside if your nervous about spark. The thing with running wire in the inside is that it will end up hanging up debris (Dust) because its surface is not smooth but what goes along with that is that it reduces air flow because it is not smooth also.

Aluminum tape easy. Metal duct easy. PVC and ignore easy. Bad thing some of the shocks might hurt a little. Static electricity. Remember rubbing your feet on carpet and zapping your friend. Well your friend the PVC is looking to zap you, but no reports of explosion.

-- Who can I block now???????????????????????

View Pop's profile

Pop

419 posts in 2444 days


#14 posted 1133 days ago

This here PVC pipe grounding thing is getting to be almost as much fun as arguing about Sawstop.
!. In a small home shop is ante’ gona happen.
2. If you’re really worried as has been said use metal pipe
3. If you gotta – use bare copper wire it’s cheaper & lamp cord is a REAL WASTE OF TIME.
4. H. Mike I’m fixing to start drinking. I think this is about the 4th or 5th DC question this week.LOL
5. The best book I’ve found is a little book published by Woodstock called “Dust Collection Basics”.
6. Lou, really I would just go with a loose looping of copper wire around the out side of the PVC. Nothing inside. Ground it to your dust collector. Ground the DC to the shop electrical system. As I said in my 1st. comment, It may be one in a million but what if you’re the millionth one?
6. I consider the floor dust sweep intake to the dust system the most dangerous thing you can put in a DC system. Think of all the little brads, screws etc. you drop. Then you’re going to sweep that stuff into the DC.
It’s a fire coming at you.

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist

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Resurrected

671 posts in 1189 days


#15 posted 1133 days ago

POP If you did not have these threads(over and Over) you would not have nothing to complain about now would you.

You might not like me but I see we do see some what eye to eye on a lot of things. i agree with you one hundred percent

-- Who can I block now???????????????????????

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