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Forum topic by sreilly24590 posted 12-10-2017 08:32 PM 435 views 2 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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sreilly24590

92 posts in 307 days


12-10-2017 08:32 PM

So the CV1800 boxes arrived and all was checked for damages, none found. Get the sub-panel and start its installation, choke on the cost of wires these day (problem with age and memory). So now it’s time to assemble and get the pipe and fittings. Not thinking I get DWV pipe and Wyes, all 6”, and then look at the 6” clear flex hose I have for blast gate connections. There’s no way the DWV pipe and flex hose are going to connect. Look deeper and see the recommended pvc pipe listed is SDR35 non-gasketed which I think is a smaller thickness but haven’t seen yet.

So for those who have been down this road can a guy get some help here. If you did indeed use the SDR35 pipe what WYEs did you find that actually fit.? Were they the DWV fittings or are there SDR fittings? My local home supply store seems a bit foggy on this. As it’s a 45 minute trip to town each way I’d like to get a complete list together and try something different fora change and make just one trip.

I plan on using clear caulk to join the pipe and figure I need 4 wyes, 1 end cap and 20’ of pipe. I have 6”-4” reducers on order for the connection to the equipment using as short a connection if possible. Then of course I’ll need to run a ground wire through the system to reduce/eliminate static electricity. Anything I’m missing here?

Thanks,

-Steve

-- Steve, Virginia


14 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4830 posts in 2369 days


#1 posted 12-10-2017 08:55 PM

I’m doing exactly that same thing right now…but I’m using ductwork from my last system and reassembling it with the new CV in a new shop. Here’s my suggestion: skip the SDR35, stay with ASTM D 2729 (thinwall, DWV, whatever you want to call it). The flex can be made to fit, and it’s not too hard. One approach is to force it into a coupling, put some screw in so it doesn’t fall out, and slip that coupling onto the pipe. In the pic, the blast gates are made using a coupling tha has been cut in 1/2. you can see the flex fitting into it. One other thing: skip the ground wire. While there is a lot of debate (and disagreement) on using it, the pain it becomes when you do anything to the duct work down the road overrides all other considerations….it is a colossal PITA to modify (not to mention it costs money and doesn’t do anything useful). BTW, the thinwall fittings do fit the SDR35.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Redoak49

3017 posts in 1864 days


#2 posted 12-10-2017 09:22 PM

I used SDR35 6”for most of my system with a 5 hp Oneida Super Dust Gorilla. I did not seal any joints but did tape them together with Gorilla Tape. I did not run any wire through the pipes.

If you are interested there are pictures of my system, pipes ceiling hangers and how I made blast gates contained in my blogs.

I got my pipe and fittings at a Menards for good prices. You may not have one near you but maybe the website could help you better understand the different type of PVC pipe.

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sreilly24590

92 posts in 307 days


#3 posted 12-10-2017 09:39 PM

Thanks for the replies. I could use any posts/pictures as a means of figuring this out. And if you have the pipe specs that would help as well. I have several plumbing suppliers in town and should be able to find what’s needed if I ask for the right stuff. I dealt with most of them in my HVAC career some years ago and still have a few contacts, I hope. Making my own blast gates sounds interesting.

Thanks,

-- Steve, Virginia

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Fred Hargis

4830 posts in 2369 days


#4 posted 12-10-2017 09:40 PM

Since Redoak mentioned Menards, around me finding the 2729 is very hard…no one seems to carry it. But Menard’s does carry the SDR35 (also called 3034) and the fittings at prices that are probably as good as any you can find. Of course, you have to have one nearby.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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sreilly24590

92 posts in 307 days


#5 posted 12-10-2017 09:50 PM

Looks like the closest ones are in Ohio…...just up the road a ways….

-- Steve, Virginia

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sreilly24590

92 posts in 307 days


#6 posted 12-10-2017 10:04 PM

Actually after a brief “duh” moment I looked at the blog and saved/printed out the entries for the ceiling mounts and the blast gates. Looks like a great way to go and easy enough…......

Thanks Again,

-- Steve, Virginia

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AandCstyle

2951 posts in 2132 days


#7 posted 12-10-2017 10:48 PM

Steve, I would also suggest you forget the “ground” wire inside the PVC. It is a total waste IMO. Be sure to post pix when complete.

-- Art

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Redcarguy

1 post in 439 days


#8 posted 12-10-2017 11:06 PM

SDR and fittings are priced the best at Menards, although it is available other places. I used aluminum strap and SS worm clamps to mount it all to the wall. self taping screws and aluminum duct tape to seal the joints…works great and looks great. Remember to 45 the ends of the SDR pipe so it will fit tight to the inside of the fittings…eliminates the gap that’s left otherwise.

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JBrow

1315 posts in 795 days


#9 posted 12-10-2017 11:35 PM

sreilly24590,

I installed 6” SDR pipe using SRD elbows, straight couplings, and wyes. These fit together well; a snug friction fit. I had one odd point in the duct work design where I needed a 6” x 6” x 6” x 6” double wye, which I special ordered. It was the only DWV pipe/fitting used. As I recall, a direct fit of the SDR-35 pipe to this DWV fitting was sloppy but a straight SDR coupling fit well enough into the DWV fitting that I could cement the DWV and SDR straight coupling together. This was the only place where I used PVC cement.

I used SDR-35 piping because it was cheaper and lighter in weight than DWV piping and fittings. The SDR-35 pipe and common fittings were available at my local Menards. But I see no reason why ASTM D2729 PVC Sewer & Drain Pipe would not also work especially if pipe and common fittings are locally available. Other than price and weight, DWV pipe could also be used. A local landscape supplier, a plumbing supply house, or perhaps a local landscape company could be sources for whatever PVC pipe you select. The fitting could be purchased over the internet if necessary.

Like Redoak49, I sealed all the joints with tape. I sealed the joints with 4” wide aluminum HVAC tape and secured the joints with some hex head sheet metal screws. Caulk or glue or perhaps even HVAC mastic could effectively seal the joints, but should you ever wish to disassemble the duct, glue, mastic, or silicone caulk would make disassembly very difficult.

While I provided a path to ground for static charges inside and outside the pipe, I did not use wire. Instead I ran a pair of continuous 4” wide stripes of aluminum HVAC tape adhered lengthwise on the inside and outside of the pipe and fittings. The tape avoids the problem mentioned by Fred Hargis while still allowing for the collection and transfer to ground of static charges. While the foil tape does a nice job of controlling static charge, it was a lengthy and less than enjoyable task. It also was expensive. I used almost 4 rolls of foil tape at about $17 per roll on a system that used 60’ of pipe.

Providing a path to ground of static charge in PVC pipe is a matter of personal preference. As Fred Hargis suggests, there does not seem to be a consensus as to whether providing a ground is necessary in a home workshop. Here is what I believe to be a well-thought out and authoritative discussion on “grounding” PVC pipe that may be worth a read so you can draw you can own conclusions…

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/shop/articles_221.shtml

You mentioned 6” to 4” reducers to marry your equipment single 4” dust ports to the 6” pipe. If this approach is taken, the air flow of the system will be choked down. A 6” pipe has almost twice the cross-sectional area of a 4” pipe. It may be worth adding a second 4” dust port to the machines. A pair of flex hoses from the dual ports of the machines can be connected to a 6” x 4” x 4” dust collector adapter from Grizzly…

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-4-D-C-Adapter/D4240?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

I figure that the dual 4” dust ports transitioned to 6” using the dust collector adaptor netted a total cross sectional area that is 90% of that of the cross sectional area of the 6” pipe.

There were times when the 6” PVC pipe was slightly too large or small to mate to a blast gate, the dust collector adapter, or at some other location. My approach was to either increase or decrease the size of the end of the pipe. I made a set of MDF dies, which were waxed with furniture paste wax. A heat gun was used to soften the end of the PVC pipe then the softened PVC pipe was slipped inside or over the appropriate die. The pipe was released from the die after the pipe had cooled.

My shop layout including the dust collection layout is shown on my “Workshop” page. Here are some pics which I hope are helpful…

Fred Hargis,

From what I have gathered from your previous dust collection posts, you have had your eye on the CV dust collectors. It sounds as if you have bought a CV. If so, congratulations! I hope it gives you the performance you expect. While I cannot compare the Oneida systems to the CV, I can say that I am well satisfied the CV1800, now in operation for almost 2 years.

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Fred Hargis

4830 posts in 2369 days


#10 posted 12-11-2017 11:54 AM

I did, they had a sale back around Memorial Day and I pulled the trigger. Since my new shop has just reached the stage where I can start the installation I’m plotting things out right now. I got the 16” impeller…so there’s no doubt in my mind it will be a big improvement over the SDG I have. I’ll try to the SDG next spring.

I have to mention: the SDR35 I’ve bought is much heavier than the 2729, that’s the main reason I recommend the 2729. That extra weight is a pain when you trying to fasten it overhead. I think the SDR is actually a schedule 40 pipe. But I’m not a pipe fitter, so maybe I got it wrong.

To the OP: I stumbled onto some full lengths of 2729 at the local Habitat Restore, if you have one it may be worthwhile to just check…could save you some big bucks.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Thalweg

93 posts in 3281 days


#11 posted 12-11-2017 04:02 PM

I had a difficult time finding all the necessary fittings for my system. I’m about two hours away from the nearest supplier. I ended up making some adapters. I took six inch long pieces of PVC pipe that is too large for the application. Then cut a slice out of the side using a bandsaw. I had to cut kerfs all around the inside edge in order to keep it round. Then I goobered PVC cement all around the inside to seal it up.

Female sides can be stretched with a little heat.

It’s pretty easy, and you can make any size you want.

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Redoak49

3017 posts in 1864 days


#12 posted 12-11-2017 11:35 PM

Depending on your dust collector, a single 4” port may be sufficient to get good dust collection. With my 5” HP Oneida, I get about 900 cfm from a 4” blast gate and with flex hose connected to the cabinet saw 670 cfm. This is enough for good dust collection.

I think that with the CV1800, you will get similar results. I would always check the flow you are getting with a 4” port before assuming that you need to enlarge it to 6”.

Below is a chart with the various sizes of PVC pipe…..

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sreilly24590

92 posts in 307 days


#13 posted 12-12-2017 02:41 AM

Guys I really appreciate the input. I wasn’t able to find D2729 locally anywhere so I ended up with SDR35 non-gasketed. I plan to use the metal tape to secure together. Wish I still had my air measuring tools I used when I was active in HVAC. Any idea what static pressure the system should hold?

I think the tool that’s likely to have the longest flex run will be the table saw just due to having to run to the floor and 90 degree over. I’m still wondering about enlarging the connection to 6” but will try as it is now (4”) and see how well it does. Fitting the PVC pipe and fittings is most likely going to be a bit tough. Using PVC glue always worked as a lubricant to twist/slide the joints together but can’t do that here. Maybe a good soap/water solution will help. Any ideas?

The only D2729 pipe I could find was perforated for drainage and it was only 4” so 6” SDR35 will work just fine.

Thanks Again,

-- Steve, Virginia

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1315 posts in 795 days


#14 posted 12-12-2017 03:40 AM

sreilly24590,

I do not recall having difficulty pressing the SDR-35 pipe into the fittings. But if you have some trouble, some ideas that I have not tried are soapy water, as you suggest, coating the end of the pipe with paraffin wax, or perhaps even using some talcum powder.

Static pressure I suppose could be measured, but I relied on calculations. Minimizing static pressure can be done by minimizing the number of turns, the length of flex hose, and the overall length of a branch. I used two 45 degree elbows rather than a single 90 degree elbow where 90 degree turns were required. I felt the SDR-35 90 degree fittings made too sharp a turn. I used “smooth-walled” flex hose to make machine connections. It is more expensive that the interior corrugated flex hose and indeed is mostly smooth on the interior of the hose. I assume it reduced static pressure by some amount.

There are a number of resources that lead one through calculations of static pressure. While I did not use this resource, it looks as good as any…

https://www.woodmagazine.com/figure-dust-collection-needs-by-the-numbers

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